House of the Dragon S3E6 "Faceless Men"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Podcast to go! Hey everybody, I'm Rennie. And I'm Veronica. And I'm David.

[00:00:28] And this is Dragon Cast, a podcast dedicated to House of the Dragon. This week we're discussing Season 3, Episode 6 of House of the Dragon, Faceless Men. And since Wendy flew off on her dragon and isn't with us today, we have special guest host David, who is an old hand with Song of Ice and Fire podcasts.

[00:00:53] He did a number of Game of Thrones podcasts in the past. So, David, what have you been up to? Well, first of all, I hope she didn't fly off on Sheepstealer because we may never see her again. No, I think she borrowed Dreamfire because Helene is not using her. Oh, right. That would make sense. I am honored to be here. Loved podcasting Game of Thrones for a long time in this group. So, so much fun to be with the two of you and do House of the Dragon.

[00:01:23] We've been moving all over the place on our own dragons. We moved from California to Pittsburgh, PA, and we were there for a year. And then we moved to Boston and now we're living in Boston. Nice. Yeah. For anybody unfamiliar, the we David is talking about is beloved Walking Dead cast co-host OG Karen. So. Karen. Yes. Yes. And she's out flying around on her dragon right now.

[00:01:52] Somewhere terrorizing the skies of New England. Uh-huh. All right. So this leaves us with two more episodes this season. Oh my gosh. What are your initial thoughts on this episode? That's a lot. I mean. It was a lot. We hit on a lot. Yeah. They somehow packed it in. I thought it was an exciting episode to watch.

[00:02:18] Yeah. I agree with that. Very eventful. Pretty long episode, but a lot of shorter scenes with a lot of action. Yes. And all kinds of plot developments and some pretty good action too. Yes. So I, you know, they don't post the title, so you can't really see the title until after you've watched the episode.

[00:02:42] And I was pretty sure that the title was going to be Butcher's Ball because that's the battle that happens after Christine gets killed. But it was Faceless Men. Wow. Did we not last week, either you or Wendy made some sort of like joke or comment about maybe they're hiring Faceless Men and then, oh, that'd be a really big plot point to introduce.

[00:03:09] And so when that was the episode title, I was like, what? Hold on a minute. And it wasn't quite that, but still just ironic that that had come up. Yeah. We're getting some Faceless Men of Brahmos behavior in King's Landing. We haven't seen any Faceless Men so far, I guess maybe because they're faceless, but I hope that is indeed what it means because those are some of the coolest characters in the whole universe or most interesting.

[00:03:39] Well, I guess we'll find out or not because they have a lot to do in the next two episodes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I have no idea what the running times are. Maybe there'll be 90 minute episodes. I mean, these really are like little feature films at this point. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go into our points. David, would you like to go first?

[00:04:02] I'd be honored to go first. So first point for me is Ormond Hightower, a character that had a leading role, I would say, in this episode and has become more and more of a significant role.

[00:04:15] I'd be a significant character as this story has continued. I have to admit, I originally thought of him as sort of an Edmure Tully, kind of a non-entity who he's in a big house, but he's sort of an effective, a little bit of a loser, maybe has a higher opinion of himself than others do around him. But that's really not quite what he's turning out to be, although I think there are some similarities there.

[00:04:45] Really worse. More of a cruel at heart, conniving maniac who is also very self-centered and selfish, but not personally brave. So an unattractive combination of qualities, sort of like the old patriarch of the Hightowers, but without any of the humanity or the wisdom or sort of the breadth of perspective.

[00:05:13] But he does have an intelligence, a cunning to him. And we didn't actually get to see him assassinated in this story. They came close. But I thought it actually was a lot of fun to see him taken down a peg, made a little uncomfortable. They played on his aversion to smell, so he actually became physically ill at the end of that scene.

[00:05:38] But maybe the closest thing we've got to a puppeteer at this point, pulling the strings. And it'll be interesting to see where it goes next with him. Yeah. He's the character you love to hate this season, I think. Agreed. Yeah. I mean, in the same breath, he calls Rhaenyra and women squeamish.

[00:06:06] And then a beat later is vomiting because of the fight that broke out in front of him with the assassination. It's just... Yeah. They've made him pretty despicable. I was sitting there trying to... With his behavior after that scene, and kind of like how you said he's not personally brave,

[00:06:26] I was trying to understand beyond just his status with the family, how he has led a pretty successful army across the land and done some pretty... I don't know. I think some moves that require men to follow you. And I was having a hard time reconciling those two things. But then I reflected on leadership within the real world, and those things do sometimes coexist.

[00:06:53] And so I guess it's believable, but I don't know. That he couldn't even keep his stomach down in the middle of that small skirmish. Like, how are you leading men in battle? I don't know. Yeah. It seems, though, that he has a charismatic lieutenant who can get the men to follow him in bold John Roxton. So... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed.

[00:07:23] And I think he does have a... He puts up a pretty good front. So he has a noble demeanor, and he's kind of a tall guy who has a bearing to him. And he has that manner in addressing the public, and maybe in addressing people who work for him. Yeah. And maybe you have to get to know him better, as Gwaine does and Darren does, to know what's behind the curtain there.

[00:07:53] Yeah. So did you both think that there was a very strong hint dropped in the conversation between Gwaine and Darren that Ormond is a pedophile who sexually abused first Gwaine when he was younger and then Darren? Hmm. Yes. Yeah. I thought that is the same interpretation that I made out of that conversation.

[00:08:24] And Darren is not happy about being left alone. Right. With Ormond. Yeah. And Ormond has a lot invested in him, in putting him up as the new king, so that fear can't be that Ormond's gonna knock him off. It must be fear of something else. Right. Yes. Yes. Excellent point. Yeah. Okay. Veronica.

[00:08:48] Well, can I just talk about what I was so absolutely thrilled with this week? Of course. Can I just do it? Yes. The despicable Kristen Cole finally meets an unceremonious end. I am so happy. It was delicious.

[00:09:05] Um, I loved how they had him have that moment of false victory, shouting out, we light the way, which was also so ironic after just last episode where he talked about, I'm gonna fight for myself. Well, you're still, you know, yelling the Hightower's words in your moment of what you think is victory, which just still felt very sweet to me.

[00:09:33] And then getting the moment of Oscar Tully sort of revealing that he'd bamboozled, uh, Cole at his own game was just delicious. And, you know, Cole, I think foreshadowed this with his wish of a glorious death that he got a very unceremonious, undelicious death. Um, and that was a black alley Blackwood that shot him with those arrows. Right.

[00:10:01] Um, which it's been interesting to me that they've had her consistently featured kind of prominently, but nobody's really talked about who she is. I know. If you're not a book reader. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder how people who are not book readers are responding to that character because, well, and, you know, they've never said Roddy the Ruins name on screen either.

[00:10:25] I saw a meme that was like, at least once an episode, House of the Dragon lingers on a character's face that I'm sure I'm supposed to know who it is, but have no idea. Um, and I don't, I mean, it's fine. I guess it allows book readers to get that moment of, haha, I recognize that character without burdening more casual watchers with an additional character to learn the name of that doesn't have like a major, major role.

[00:10:53] So I guess maybe there are a lot of characters in this thing. Yeah. There are a lot. The explanation might be as simple as that. And, um, and maybe they don't have time to go into it. Um, but she seems like she deserves a name. She's kind of a badass. Yeah. Right. I know.

[00:11:13] I, at, at the, at the scene when they were singing and celebrating after the fish feed, somebody could have, uh, called out, hey, Black Alley, you want a cup of ale? Right. So we would have at least heard her name. I thought something else that I sort of appreciated that seemed intentional in the episode is that the news of Kul's death did not travel quickly.

[00:11:40] And I know that's believable in Westeros and in this sort of guerrilla warfare situation they're in, but when it's convenient for the plot, they will allow news to travel very, very quickly in Westeros. And so to me, it seemed intentional that not only did he not have a prominent, like, hero's death in story, his death did not feel like it was at the beginning of the episode and then it was not underlined again throughout.

[00:12:08] You know, no one else knew he was dead. And to me, I liked that for the point of saying, like, he doesn't even get a ceremonious death in the, like, span of the show, you know? I don't know. Yeah, I have a theory about that. Um, I think on her way to Harrenhal, Alice is going to encounter the army and see his head on a pike. I bet you're right.

[00:12:36] Right. That's so perfectly set for that. Yeah. With her heading that way. Yeah. I thought striking, as you say, his death was unceremonious. Um, it was also kind of just pathetic. Yeah. Um, where, you know, he makes this big show of, hey, I'll fight two of you, which basically is like young kid and old man. Right.

[00:13:00] And, um, you know, I'm going to be noble and try to save my men and songs will be sung about me and his whole deal. He, um, and then he just sort of unceremoniously dies of arrows. And he had wrapped Alison's cloth around his wrist for the big finale. Mm-hmm. And, and I kind of feel like, does she even know he exists at this point?

[00:13:26] Like, at no point has she mentioned him or thought about him in a long time. Yeah. Yeah. He says, I am the greatest warrior in Westeros. Oh, I forgot about the existence of ranged weapons. Right. Yeah. Veronica, one, uh, after that first sequence, I thought of you and I thought, oh, you're going to be clapping and whooping. Yes.

[00:13:55] I was thrilled. I was thrilled. I found, sorry, the internet, the memes have just been all over the place on fire this season. But, um, I saw one that had a young Rhaenyra with a cigarette in her mouth. And it was like me watching Kristen Kuhl die in the first five minutes. I was like, yes. So good. Yeah. Okay. Well, my first point is dragon eggs, WTF. Right.

[00:14:27] So this is something that only exists in the show. The, the existence of these dragon eggs came as a surprise, uh, to book readers. Um, and I thought I would explain some of the background that actually does make this completely plausible. So Alice says that these are eggs that were laid by Dreamfire.

[00:14:51] Dreamfire is currently Helena's dragon that we've never seen, which is too bad because Dreamfire is supposed to be a really beautiful dragon. She's blue with silver crest. Um, so they were laid by Dreamfire when Dreamfire was at Harrenhal with her previous writer, Reyna Targaryen. Different Reyna Targaryen. I assumed. Different from Daemon's daughter of the same name.

[00:15:19] That Reyna Targaryen was Princess Reyna. She was the daughter of King Aenys I, who was the son of Aegon the Conqueror and his sister wife, Rhaenys. Um, so Dreamfire hatched while Aegon the Conqueror was still king. So Dreamfire is an older dragon. Uh, and she bought bonded with Aegon's granddaughter, Reyna, who was nine at the time.

[00:15:46] Uh, Dreamfire is known to have produced three clutches of eggs. This would be a fourth. Um, the first two on Dragonstone and the third, uh, while Reyna was in hiding at Fair Isle, which is an island out in to the west of Westeros. Um, and she was in hiding there during the reign of her half-uncle Maegor the Cruel, who had usurped her father, Aenys.

[00:16:16] Um, and, uh, Reyna ended up moving around a lot. And after Maegor's death, she ended up living on Dragonstone, where that third clutch of eggs all hatched. Um, and also of note is that Reyna's close friend, Alyssa Farman, stole three of Dreamfire's eggs from the Dragonstone hatcheries.

[00:16:44] And there is a very popular fan theory, mostly among book readers, that, um, those three eggs are the eggs that Daenerys gets. Ooh. I was wondering about that during the show. Because Alyssa Farman took them to Essos and sold them to get the money to build a ship, um, because she wanted to sail around the world. Uh, last season, House of the Dragon provided a different version making Cyrax's eggs.

[00:17:14] The three eggs that become Daenerys's eggs. So there are, there are different, differing versions of where those eggs came from, but they may have been Dreamfires. Um, also, uh, Dreamfire has a taste for human flesh because, uh, Reyna's, I can't remember if it was her second or her third husband, Andro Farman, uh, killed Reyna's close female friends.

[00:17:43] And when he was found out, he jumped out the window in Dragonstone and killed himself. And Reyna had his body chopped up and fed to Dreamfire. Oh, so hot. Um, so, Reyna's daughter, Araya, briefly claimed Balerion, who had been Maegor the Cruels after Aegon the Conquerors. Uh, but, uh, when she got on Balerion, he took off and flew to Old Valeria.

[00:18:11] And she, um, Araya came back infested with weird parasites, uh, and she died. And after that, Reyna did go into self-imposed exile at Harrenhal with Dreamfire. Uh, but nothing exists in any of the written texts about Dreamfire laying more eggs there. And, uh, Reyna died in 73 AC after Conquest.

[00:18:39] And after that, Dreamfire lived in the Dragon Pit at King's Landing, where she and Helena bonded when Helena was 11. So it's not at all impossible that Dreamfire did lay eggs at Harrenhal. Because she and Reyna were there for 17 years. Uh, anyway, this is the first time we've ever seen seduction by Dragon Egg.

[00:19:03] Um, and Alice says it's been 100 years since Reyna and Dreamfire were there. That's not right. It was either, it's between 74 years and 57. So not quite 100 years. Um, one of the things that I thought was really interesting was that Alice has blood on her hand right in that spot in between your thumb and your first finger.

[00:19:27] And, uh, she smears it on the egg right when Eamon says the egg is warm. And I'm wondering if that's some sort of old god's blood sacrifice that Alice is making to bring that egg back to life. Uh, it'd be considered, I mean, there's just been a lot of potential speculation about her doing different blood sacrifice. Yes. rituals, right? So it's totally impossible.

[00:19:58] Yes. And from a story perspective, it, what it made me wonder is what are they going to do with those eggs? Because to your point, the, um, Daenerys's eggs, which a lot of fans would be interested in, have been otherwise explained. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So why introduce these eggs into the story unless something is going to happen with them? I, I think I have an idea about that, but that's for the spoiler section.

[00:20:28] Good tease. All right, David. Uh, okay. Uh, my next point is conquering versus ruling. Mm-hmm. And I'm sure the two of you talked about this last week, uh, because that became an instant theme with Rhaenyra. Uh, but that really continued to pace, I think, through this episode and continues to be an important storyline.

[00:20:56] The, the idea that taking over the kingdom, while maybe not easy, is a lot easier than ruling the kingdom. Mm-hmm. Um, so they're back, uh, they, they seem to have maybe addressed the rat problem with cats. Um, but the treasury is still empty. The people of King's Landing are still approaching starvation. Their businesses are going bust. Um, everything is going wrong in the city.

[00:21:24] And they're seeing that the queen has little interest in their problems. Thanks to the high towers and maybe the faceless men, there are no gold cloaks keeping order. At this point. Rhaenyra has little idea out of, uh, of how to solve these issues and, uh, less interest in them. Um, she barely, a small council meeting can barely hold her attention for a few minutes.

[00:21:50] Uh, in, in one case, um, during one of her audiences, the, uh, complaint is brought to her that a young septa was kidnapped. And I think it's implied murdered. And Rhaenyra says, she'll light a candle for her. Right. They don't even have candles. Like, they're running out of candles. Right. So, not only is it a callous response, like, it's not even literally true.

[00:22:14] Um, and I think interesting, and I'm going to come back to this in another point. Dragons, which are the entire basis of power, um, for the blacks are totally irrelevant to any of these problems. Uh, they don't solve them. And if anything, they make them worse by what they themselves consume. Um, I think it's analogous to what we're going through in capitalism today.

[00:22:42] The great houses are like billionaires and the common folk are like all the rest of us. And, uh, the lack of any empathy whatsoever for regular people, I think is a palpable theme running through these episodes. Yep. Yeah.

[00:23:00] And I think, I mean, with what's happening, and I think that's sort of the point of, of the idea of referencing the faceless men, is that it's no longer about any one of these individual people's agenda.

[00:23:20] It's a growing discontent that you can put down as many individuals that you think are, like, fomenting all of this feeling about Rhaenyra. But the problem is with Rhaenyra, right?

[00:23:38] It's that she's not considering all of these alternate perspectives and realizing what you're saying, that it takes a lot more to rule peacefully than to just take over violently. She has the desire to rule peacefully like her father. Right. But she doesn't have the, um, the nuance, the willingness to be patient, um, and all the things that go with it.

[00:24:07] And I would say it's not just her, it's her and Damon. Right? They're really a pair joined at the hip and he is the absolute opposite of any sort of nuance or patience. Um, so to the degree that her heart might be in the right place in some way, he's going to lead her in the wrong direction, not the right direction. Yeah. Yes. Veronica? Yeah.

[00:24:31] I think that sort of leads into one of the points I had down, which was just in general, like, Targaryen arrogance being their downfall. And I think we see that throughout the different peaks we've gotten into Westeros society that, um, even those with good intentions seem to fall to that.

[00:24:53] And so Rhaenyra, I mean, it's like she almost just expects, you see this with Alicent, but also in those scenes with the small folk that she just sort of expects them to be grateful to her for like coming to take the throne. And that they should all be like, oh, you've, you've saved us. Um, and I think there's several other examples of it in the episode too.

[00:25:22] Um, we've seen this whole season how I just think stupid they have been in their consideration of the dragon seeds, particularly Ulf and Hugh. And again, it's their own arrogance at thinking, well, these people are just like, just getting to serve us. And the cause of the Targaryens is enough, just getting to be able to be a dragon rider. Um, but you see how that is, I think, setting them up for a lot of disaster.

[00:25:51] And it's not just Hugh and Ulf. I mean, they do it with Bela and Adam as well. I mean, Bela is a Targaryen, but she's never really been accepted or treated as one by Daemon.

[00:26:03] And so I think they're really letting their sort of, their arrogance that everyone is obviously just like blessed to get to have them ruling them and to be in honor of the Targaryen cause instead of continuing to like reinforce why they should be in favor of that cause.

[00:26:26] Um, we see it with Daemon's sort of, like, he just seems like he cannot fathom why any of the gold cloaks would be resigning in this episode. Um, again, just like his own arrogance at not realizing like what they're living with and why they would have concerns that are bigger to them than following and protecting the Targaryen cause.

[00:26:50] And Rhaenyra even at one point like clung to sort of this idea of it being her divine right to take the throne, um, because of what Viserys told her and sort of like you see her setting herself up for a continued justification of what will probably be worse and worse decisions that she's going to make as she continues to sort of invoke that as her justification.

[00:27:19] And then the last sort of example of it was not on the Blacks but the Greens and that's what we sort of talked about a little bit already with Alice and Eamond.

[00:27:28] And, you know, she is, I, I don't, we've talked a lot about trying to understand what her intentions are and it's sort of regardless of what her intentions are, whether good or ill for Eamond, she is, like, she has him in the palm of her hand the way she's really just figured him out perfectly. And I think a lot of that is that sort of idea that he could set himself up as a prince there at Harrenhal, right?

[00:27:57] And so it was just example after example after example this episode of them letting their own belief in the Targaryen name lead them down roads to what I think is going to be all of their demise because of these missteps. Yeah, it's a really great point.

[00:28:42] Yeah. That's something that I have in my notes is, Damon, it is not a good idea to call a man with a dragon a maggot. Right. Right, exactly. Well, my next point is, Damon, so at the small council meeting, Damon says, remember the prophecy, your sacred calling.

[00:29:10] Whatever you do in its service is justified. Oops. He just talked about a secret prophecy in front of the entire small council and he did it in the common tongue. He should have switched to Valyrian to say that. It's a big secret and he's talking about it out in the open. Wow. And nothing stays secret in King's Landing. Right. It's true.

[00:29:39] Talk about news travel quickly. But I think it's because it is taking him over more and more. And I want to cite the YouTuber, YouTuber, Joe Magician. Gosh, I suddenly have lost the ability to speak. Alice Rivers is preventing me from saying what I'm about to say.

[00:30:02] I want to cite Joe Magician, who's a YouTuber, a video that he put out about how Damon has misinterpreted the vision that Alice Rivers gave him. And it's that vision which is driving him towards this idea of Rhaenyra conquering the whole world and rebuilding the old Valyrian Empire.

[00:30:32] Because he saw that vision of Daenerys with the newly hatched dragons. And he took that as a sign that the dragon riding Targaryens should go out and conquer. He sees her in a desert. So his first thought is conquer Dorne.

[00:30:58] And then he just goes on from there to conquer the whole world. And it never occurs to him that what he's seeing is the miraculous rebirth of the dragons bringing the Targaryen dynasty back from near extinction. The dragons had already died out. And the Targaryens were about to die out because Daenerys at that point is the only known Targaryen survivor in the world. But Daemon doesn't think of that as a possibility.

[00:31:28] He sees it as a call to rebuild old Valyria. And that is what is driving him to this megalomania that causes him to go ahead and talk about the secret prophecy out loud in the small council meeting. And to try to drive Rhaenyra in this direction.

[00:31:52] And so I thought that was a really, really good insight and intriguing idea about what's going on with Daemon. And Daemon is definitely out of control and off the rails again. Right? Yeah. No, that's interesting. I think it makes more sense.

[00:32:14] I don't know if I needed an explanation beyond just Daemon is Daemon and is going to be constantly thinking about conquest and the next fight. But I think that's a really interesting idea. And I could definitely see that being what's keeping him sort of perseverating on this idea of leaving to go conquer, conquer, conquer. And seeing himself is all powerful. Yeah.

[00:32:43] Because part of what drives his attitude towards the gold cloaks and towards Ulf is this feeling of omniscience that he's developing or regaining. I don't mean omniscience. I mean omnipotence. Right? Not that he's all knowing, but he thinks he's all powerful. I mean, so brazen to just stride through the streets.

[00:33:10] Like, his hair is sort of tucked, but he still has, like, gold curls out. Which was just like, okay, why tuck any of it then? Yeah. But obviously he survives that just fine, but I think that plays more into his idea that he is more than just a man, right? Yeah. And whoever has done this took out quite a few of your very well-trained, established gold cloaks.

[00:33:36] I think that you can just stride through and take them out without a problem is pretty cocky. Pretty dangerous. Yeah. I know, Targaryens and their hair. You know, Aegon's wandering around with his Targaryen hair hanging out. He doesn't even have a hood on anymore. And Daemon's hair is coming out from his helmet disguise. They're just Targaryens and their hair. Right.

[00:34:07] All right. David? So, I want to go back to the dragons. And just to set the context to remind everyone where we are in the dragon sitch. So, for the blacks, we really have six active dragons at this point.

[00:34:34] So, Rhaenyra has Syrax. Daemon has Syraxes. Adam has Seasmoke. Bela has Moondancer. And then the two guys that they've recruited, Ulf has Silverwing. And Hugh has Vermithor. And then Joffrey also has a dragon, Tyraxes. But he's just a little baby dragon. Just a little one. He's so cute.

[00:35:03] And so, then there's also Reyna on Sheepstealer. But Sheepstealer has proven to be unreliable and perhaps dangerous. And they're out of the fight hiding in a cave. So, really, in terms of useful dragons, I think we can say six. And the green team really only has two. And Under Control only has one. Right? So, Daeron has Tessarion. And then Aemond theoretically has Vhagar.

[00:35:31] Although Vhagar is AWOL and we don't know where he is. So, you know, as we were saying earlier, that seems very one-sided.

[00:35:42] Um, however, besides the possibility of that math changing, um, let's say if Ulf or Hugh or both of them switch sides, I think what we're also, what we've also seen in probably these last two episodes is the irrelevance of the dragons to many aspects of the green versus the black struggle. Mm-hmm. Um, so, to some aspects of the battle, they're irrelevant.

[00:36:12] Um, let's say Tumbleton. Um, she doesn't want to go in and fry everyone in Tumbleton who are supposedly loyal subjects. So, it doesn't work for that problem. Yeah, I love that thing that Sabath Ifray says, because dragons are so precise. Right, exactly. Or maybe she says, dragon fire is so precise, yeah. Yeah, and even Rhaenyra, as blind as she can be about some things, realizes this. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:39] Um, dragons are completely unhelpful with all the King's Landing problems. Um, you can't, um, burn yourself to death while, uh, you know, dealing with an unruly public in King's Landing. Um, but some other things I think we've seen, or at least that are interpreted this way in House of the Dragon, that were a little different in Game of Thrones.

[00:37:05] Um, and one is that the dragons themselves are much more vulnerable in this series. So, um, we saw that in the sea battle, in which, um, every shot taken at a dragon seems to hit its mark. We saw that when Alicent collaborated with Rhaenyra to take over King's Landing, when it was so important to have the defenders of the Red Keep stand down.

[00:37:35] Um, and that's very different than was portrayed in Game of Thrones. Now, in Game of Thrones, maybe they've had hundreds of years to forget that anti-dragon technology, so maybe that was a factor. Um, but the dragons don't seem all powerful. And then we've seen many examples of how vulnerable the dragon riders are when they are not with their dragon. Mm-hmm. Um, so as you said, uh, Daemon's vulnerable wandering around King's Landing.

[00:38:03] Uh, the other two guys, one's going off to the pub, the other's trying to get his wife to fly off with him, literally. Um, Aemond is separated from Vhagar. Any one of these people is vulnerable to being captured, wounded, or killed when they are not with their dragon. Uh, so I think we're finding that the dragons are going to be much less of a determining factor in this whole fight than we were originally led to believe.

[00:38:34] Yeah, interesting. Mm-hmm. Yeah. One of the reasons why they're, they're not much of, of a factor now is that reluctance to, to actually use them. Um, which Aegon the Conqueror did not have. He and his two sister wives just went around burning everything.

[00:39:00] One of the battles there is known as the Field of Fire, where they basically incinerated an entire army. Right. So the question there is, Rhaenyra just not ruthless enough or just not cruel enough, which is what Daemon tries to argue. But I, I think the other critical factor here is they're fighting themselves. Yes. Um, so they're divided. If the Targaryens are united and all the dragons are on one side, it's impossible to stand against them.

[00:39:29] But when they're divided and there's some dragons on each side, then they cease to become the only card in the deck. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Very much so. Veronica. Where did I want to go? Oh, I know where I want to go. Just a small point, but I, um, wanted to talk about our little moment with Aegon and Laris and it's Thailand, right? Thailand? Yes, Thailand. Thailand. Okay.

[00:39:57] I keep, uh, that's one of the ones for some reason. Yeah, it sounds like T-H-A-I-L-A-N-D, but it's T-Y-L-A-N-D, Thailand. Okay. I thought this was an interesting little scene. First of all, like a comically shallow grave. Like, why even waste the time to dig? Like, just leave the body there. It's not gonna, you're slowing yourselves down. You should have just left it there and gone.

[00:40:25] Um, but I thought it was interesting and I feel like maybe it shows some growth for Aegon when he asked Thailand the quest, like he asked him to tell him whether he was a good king, right? Did he say good man or good king? King, right? I think he said, am I a terrible man? Okay. Yeah. A terrible man. Yeah. Which is what Laris had said to him. Yeah.

[00:40:52] And I think he was looking to see if Thailand would be honest with him because he knew the answer and he knew what Thailand thought of him. And I think it was one that he was like, okay, well, I'm gonna trust Laris because at least whether I wanna hear it or not, Laris is telling me the truth. You know, whether it's convenient for him or not.

[00:41:13] And then also I wondered if it was him reflecting on just like, okay, if Thailand, who knew me closely as a king, doesn't think I'm a good man. Like, how could his plan of gathering support to my name really work? Like, I probably just need to follow Laris.

[00:41:33] And so like, even though it was shorter than I would have liked the time we spent with them, just because I've been continuing to enjoy them so much, I thought like, that it was kind of packed with a lot, both like some comedy and some character growth for Aegon, which I'm enjoying. Yeah. Thailand stumbling around how many of you trying to answer that question was hilarious. Right.

[00:41:57] And I kind of felt like Aegon was saying, if this guy can't even give me an answer, I'm going with the other guy. Yeah. Yeah, I think it was like the first intelligent thing Aegon ever did. Right. He decided to take the advice of the one who was willing to tell him the truth. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:22] Which is not who Aegon previously probably would have chosen. He wanted the yes men. You know, he didn't want someone telling him what a shit he is, but he's had to go through enough now. Like, is Aegon the, you know, are we all going to love him by the end of this? Because we're really coming around on him. I don't know. He's a hard guy to love. He really is.

[00:42:50] Like, but this season, I can't believe I'm enjoying his character arc. And even that I'm not detesting seeing Laris each episode is such a switch up from the previous seasons. Agreed. I still would love to see Laris meet like a really terrible end. I mean, he's terrible and by no means am I excusing Aegon of his prior atrocities.

[00:43:19] But taken as moments and sort of appreciating the growth we're seeing, it's been really enjoyable and surprisingly so. And he's done a few things that make you, if not love him, at least respect him a little more. He's turned out to have a little bit of bravery and persistence. And he killed that guy who was humiliating him.

[00:43:48] But okay, he's got a little juice there. And then to be able to, as you both said, accept and follow the guy who was willing to tell him the truth. Yeah, it's character growth. Yeah. From a very low starting point. Right, right. Like the bar is, I mean, honestly, the bar in this whole show is pretty low. There are very few like true good characters that you can look up to.

[00:44:17] Yeah, well, you know, if you're aiming to be a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, if you start at 8, right, then, you know, going to 9 is improvement. But if you start at minus 10, then going to minus 5 is improvement. Right, right. That's where I'd put Agon about now. He's worked his way up to a minus 5. All right. Well, my next point is Amon, because my last point was Damon.

[00:44:47] They kind of go together, right? They do, don't they? So what does Helena's sewing art, I don't know if she's doing needlepoint or embroidery or what? That is because I don't know anything about sewing. But, you know, whatever it is that she's sewing there, what does that mean?

[00:45:09] Because we see Agon in Harrenhal, but he's surrounded by all this red thread that looks like some kind of womb. That's what it looked like to me, too. So is this the rebirth of Amon? That's exactly what I thought. Is he going to be undergoing some sort of rebirth?

[00:45:35] And if Alice intentionally or unintentionally gave Damon a vision of Empire reborn, what is she giving Amon? And I'm very curious about where their story is going. You know, it was obvious from the moment that he arrived that she would be seducing him.

[00:46:00] And she has the advantage in doing that because he has a mommy fixation. And so she could be his surrogate mommy and, you know, seduce him that way. But it's not at all clear to me at this point exactly what she wants from Amon.

[00:46:25] And I don't have a lot of book reader insight to add to what the script has, because in the book, the relationship between Amon and Alice is mysterious. And none of the historical sources that Fire and Blood draws on really have the insider story of what happens between them while Amon is at Harrenhal.

[00:46:48] So I'm still very curious as to what Alice's overall goal is and how she's going about it with what she's doing with Amon. And I don't think that we're going to get a real final answer to that in the next two episodes either. I think Alice's grand plan won't come to any sort of fruition until next season.

[00:47:20] I feel like in this episode, I got to the point where I decided maybe she doesn't have a grand plan. Well, she just has aspirations of more greatness and not having to claw her way through life. And it's not about black or green or anybody's side, but her own, you know, utilization of them as a stepping stone. So if it had been Damon, that would have been fine. But Amon does just as good of a substitute.

[00:47:50] And it's probably because she had those eggs, it needed to be a Targaryen, she thought. But I don't know. I mean, that's very like, womp womp. Like, I sort of expect there to be this other larger, like, through line. But I also just, we know we have one season and two episodes left.

[00:48:15] And is there really time for this subplot of this deep-seated long-term story for her? I don't know. It would be more interesting if there was, but I just have a hard time envisioning the time to develop that out. And I'm 100% fine if Alice doesn't have a grand plan. I wouldn't be happy if the writers didn't have a grand plan, right?

[00:48:42] If the story's not going anywhere because the writers don't know where it's going. If the, you know, if the, if it lies with Alice, that's fine. If it's something that the writers haven't figured out, that's not as fine. David, do you have another point? I do have one more. Okay. And I'm calling this one The Return of the Ruse.

[00:49:09] So I enjoy a good ruse in the Song of Ice and Fire universe. And there's been some good ones over the years. And there were several in this episode. First of all, the, right at the beginning, the Dead Guys ruse used by the, the Rivermen against Sir Kristen Cole. The attack of the zombies. The attack of the zombies. The attack of the zombies. Masterminded by Oscar Tully.

[00:49:39] And the fake dead soldiers very soon turn out to be really dead soldiers, which is pretty cold. Yeah. They, they, they sacrifice their lives for the distraction of the big army showing up. But anyway, pretty good ruse. Then you have Rhaenyra's plot to have fake Baratheons assassinate Ormond Hightower and young potential King Daeron.

[00:50:07] Much clumsier than anything the faceless men of Braavos might do, even though that was the title of the episode. Yes. We have potentially the faceless men themselves, or a reasonable facsimile, committing very mysterious mass assassinations in King's Landing.

[00:50:25] And then lastly, Corlys Valerian suddenly surprised and kidnapped by a bunch of Hightower men, you know, after he's been doing his activities to suppress some of his enemies. And I have to admit, I found that one a little implausible.

[00:50:49] Like, we've sort of played the card in recent episodes of being surprised by big military forces a few times. Yeah. And the Sea Snake is a very veteran and wily commander who this kind of came out of nowhere. So I didn't really enjoy that one as much. That sort of, I thought, the groundwork was not fully laid for.

[00:51:14] But anyway, more subterfuge has entered the plot in recent episodes instead of just wham-bam action with dragons. So I think it's fun. I mean, they've been doing it a lot. Like, Tylan, was he dead? Was he not? Corlys, already just recently. Is he dead? Is he not? Like, it feels that it's a bit much. And I still am like, is Sunfire really dead?

[00:51:41] Because I feel like they laid these hints of, like, the dragon not actually being dead. And so, I don't know. I like some of it. I love the surprise. And at a certain point, like, not everything has to be a ha-ha, gotcha. Yeah. I'm enjoying the tricks. Like, the ruse of the dead soldiers more so than I'm enjoying the surprises. Because, as you say, too many surprises cease to be surprising. Yeah.

[00:52:11] Yeah. I did, the first watch through, like, I didn't understand the full plot of the Baratheon imposters. And I didn't realize until the second watch through that, like, oh, the first time I was like, why is she at, why is Rhaenyra asking him for his belt? Yeah. Like, I didn't get it. And then I was like, oh, my goodness. Like, I still didn't catch it until the second walkthrough that I was like, oh, Rhaenyra sent them and stole the clothes off the men.

[00:52:41] Like, it was very obvious the second time around. But not for the first time for me. You also have to love that Sir Gawain sniffed it out because he's like, the real guy is hot. Yeah, right? This guy isn't very good looking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:02] Of course, there would be no way of knowing whether somebody would be, whether Orman himself or anybody around him would know the actual Baratheon that that guy was pretending to be. I think it would have been smarter to pretend to be a fictional Baratheon, right? Right. Like, cousin George, who was fostered somewhere far away and recently returned, right? Who nobody would know.

[00:53:33] I mean, if she'd just pulled out a box of hair dye the same way Orman had done, she could have really got him at his own game. But he did not have his eye for beauty detail. That's the problem. Exactly. Okay, Veronica. I think I just have, like, small comments on a few of the other moments. Did we discuss yet that the throne cut Rhaenyra finally? No. It did not.

[00:54:03] So, yeah. That's a pretty, like, strong sort of implication that the throne is rejecting you. Yes. And it was poignant that as it happened, she looked up at the... Is this the first time that we saw there was that carving of Viserys holding his, like, toy castle? I think we've seen it before. We've seen it before, but it hasn't really... They haven't really focused in on it.

[00:54:30] I don't know why it was obviously, like, a serious and significant moment, but for some reason, him, like, holding his castle really got me. That's the first time I noticed it. But, yeah. I mean, pretty strong symbolism there that this is the rejection as the small folk were rejecting her and she left the room. It's not good. That's for sure. It's not good. Yeah.

[00:54:56] I think the only other thing I had was commenting on Rhaenyra's reaction to finding out that Helena is a dreamer. And I think sending Alicent away fits well into her plan to bait Aemond. And I'm also excited to see what happens when Aemond is torn between Alice and Alicent.

[00:55:26] But I also wonder if that's Rhaenyra's chance. Just the herb. She was pretty, like, excited, I feel like, about finding out Helena was a dreamer. And so I'm wondering if she's hoping she can get some intel from her. Especially because she's so hyper-perseverating on her father and this prophecy. Like, she seems like she needs...

[00:55:53] I think she might turn to Helena for some of the validation that she's not getting elsewhere and try to dig that out of her. And I don't think that's how that works, you know? Helena sees what she's able to see and it's not a... Yeah, so I think that's setting up for something not great, probably, for Helena. I agree. I'm worried about poor Helena.

[00:56:20] And I feel like it's going to be a deterioration of Rhaenyra's, like, psyche around it. Yeah. Yes. And things can't possibly end well for Helena. I just don't see how they can. And, you know, Helena may have had dreams about Rhaenyra. And if she tells Rhaenyra, that may make Rhaenyra more paranoid. Right. Than she already is. Yeah.

[00:56:50] I don't think that is all going anywhere good. Uh, Bela and Alan. I know we talked about this last week. I didn't really see this kiss this week coming. Nope. And I don't feel like their chemistry is it for me. Nope. Um, I mean, they both, like, they tried to have them, like, bond over their daddy issues.

[00:57:16] But that, it just felt surprising and like we didn't put the time into building that up. And almost, like, last episode when we had the moment of her and Adam talking, that probably should have been her and Alan. If they were trying to build up to this moment. Yes. Um, that was weird for me. Yeah, I thought she was into the brother, not him. Yes. Like, they seem to have more, actually, some chemistry.

[00:57:42] Well, and they've been out for hours and hours riding together to seek this out. And Bela and Alan did have that time searching for Corleus on the beach a few episodes ago. But I just don't think they spent the time with them that they needed to for me to believe this. I misheard what Bela said to Alan on my first watch. I thought she said, you're so beautiful. Beautiful.

[00:58:11] And I thought, you know, really not so much I don't think. I think Adam is beautiful. Not so much Alan. And then I realized on the second watch she said, dutiful. So that was pretty funny. Yeah. So, okay. I guess we'll see what happens there. But other than that, I did like the other pieces that we got of Alan this episode.

[00:58:38] I think they're really building him out to be a potentially very useful person to have advising Rhaenyra. Maybe one of the only ones in the small council room who is giving her, like, sage-balanced advice that feels like he really actually has good intentions for her and the realm.

[00:58:57] And then I loved that he was the voice of reason to his father in saying, like, it took you, what, 18, 20 years to legitimize us and to accept us as your sons? Can you give her, like, a minute? Yeah. And I feel like it's something that we have said. And it was nice to hear him sort of voice that to Corlys.

[00:59:24] And I think it was something Corlys probably needed to hear. So, yeah. I liked his character and what they're doing with him outside of the sort of abrupt makeout session with Bela. Yeah. I think that's pretty much everything. I have several small notes. So this episode got an 8.0 rating on IMDb, which is higher than the previous two, but quite a bit lower than the first two.

[00:59:54] First two episodes this season got a 9.2 and a 9.4. We mentioned Kristen Cole saying, we light the way, which are the Hightower housewords.

[01:00:11] Since he's technically Aegon's hand of the king and is fighting for either Aegon or if people think Aegon's dead, then Aemon to be king. Why is he using the Hightower housewords instead of the Targaryen housewords? Because he's clearly just fighting for Alicent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you answered it.

[01:00:41] Yeah. So, the Baratheon envoys say that Lord Boros Baratheon can't come to answer Rhaenyra's call because he has to fight the Vulture King, who is a bandit who is attacking the south of the Stormlands. And the Vulture King is not really a character because we don't really meet him, but a figure who comes from the book.

[01:01:12] One of the things that I loved is when Hugh flies to Tumbleton to take over watch duty from Ulf. When he lands, Vermithor goes over and nuzzles Silverwing. I really liked that. I really liked that because, remember, Vermithor was King Jaehaerys' dragon and Silverwing was Queen Alysanne's dragon.

[01:01:34] So, they were a bonded pair of dragons because their humans were a couple. Dragons being sweet. You know, it's not something you see every day. Yeah. Ulf, when he's talking with Hugh in that scene, he's reminiscing about market days in King's Landing.

[01:02:02] King's Landing, and he's talking about the things that were available on market days. And one of the things that he says is, hot pies, which has got to be a call out to the character Hot Pie in Game of Thrones. Oh, that's a good catch. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, I loved that. Alicent says to Rhaenyra, if you must be cruel, which echoes her being called Rhaenyra the Cruel.

[01:02:33] We saw Miseria playing both sides, and she's willing to kill her own informant in order to protect herself, so Rhaenyra can't find out that she knew that Helena was pregnant. I didn't clock that. Yeah. I saw her. I saw that scene, but I didn't clock that that was her informant. I was like, this has to mean something. They paused on it, but...

[01:03:00] Yeah, that's the maid who... Yeah. I think is the one who told Miseria that the moon tea had been delivered. Yeah. And I mean, Miseria, it was not just a lie by omission. Like, she straight up lied to Rhaenyra this episode. So she's...

[01:03:25] Miseria is, you know, taking care of herself rather than taking care of Rhaenyra at this point. Yeah. And so that just emphasizes how Rhaenyra doesn't really have anybody she can trust. Mm-mm. No. And I think this... That figure of Miseria was always going to be that way. Right? Yeah. That's the kind of person and character she is.

[01:03:51] One thing I don't like in this show sometimes, and I think this goes back, Veronica, to what you mentioned about too many surprises, is cliffhangers that lead nowhere. Mm-mm. If you're going to have a cliffhanger, like, have an amount to something. So there was the cliffhanger where they went into the passage to escape, and the passage was bricked up, and the light went out, and the cats and the rats, and what's going to happen next? Yeah.

[01:04:17] And what happened is, like, a few soldiers found them a couple minutes later, which is the least interesting thing imaginable that could have happened. I know. Right? And what were those guards doing in there? Yeah. In the... It did not... It didn't make a lot of sense. Yeah. It was kind of... It just didn't go anywhere. Yeah. So when Rhaena looks out and she sees two dragons flying by...

[01:04:46] At first, I didn't know what dragons those were. It wasn't until second watch that I realized that she was seeing Moondancer and Seasmoke. Yeah. Because Bela and Adam have been out searching for Vhagar. So just in case anybody else didn't figure that out like I didn't figure it out the first time, that was Moondancer and Seasmoke. I just didn't understand that whole scene, though.

[01:05:16] Because... At first, I was like, okay, they caught her because she went out on foot wandering to try to go, you know... No, she flew. But then they say she flew. So then how did they catch her? Good question. Because they didn't catch her while she's flying. And would they really... How could they approach her in Sheepstealer's cage? Good question. I mean, cave. Like, I just didn't understand... I don't know. Yeah. I felt like there was a different way they could have had... I don't know.

[01:05:46] I didn't like it. Yeah. I don't... I still... Can we do something with her? Like, we finally get her a dragon. I was excited for that. But I just feel like they keep having these little check-ins with her that don't really go anywhere. Agreed. Boy, man, though, Jane Aron is brutal.

[01:06:07] After whoever they threw out the moon door gets thrown out, she says, never ceases to be fascinating about people being thrown out the moon door. Wow. Well, if you're going to have a moon door put in, you want to use it. Yeah, right. Very interesting people there in the veil. Yeah, they sure are.

[01:06:35] Eamon says, Vhagar wouldn't have left him willingly. But what does he imagine might have compelled her to leave? What could possibly threaten or entice Vhagar against her will? Well, so I think that my theory that I talked about last week, that Alice has somehow gotten Vhagar to leave. I think that supports that theory.

[01:07:05] And Eamon says she might have wanted to leave because of this forsaken castle that she's shunning. And maybe that is the case somehow through Alice. Alice says perhaps Vhagar left to protect Eamon because he can only hide if she's not there.

[01:07:30] And perhaps that's how Alice got Vhagar to go away. I'm hoping that that will all be wrapped up in the next episode. I think it will be rather than in the last episode. Yeah. I don't have guesses. I think that's the best guess is that Alice somehow used something magical to make Vhagar leave.

[01:07:59] Also, I mean, do we know a dragon wouldn't leave its rider when they're presumably mortally wounded? I mean, I think Eamon wants to believe that because he can't envision sort of the one thing that he's poured his whole being into leaving him. But is that a rule or is that just like, is that a rule of dragon bonds or is that a rule for Eamon because of how he feels about Vhagar?

[01:08:30] Vhagar's his other mother. Yeah. I noticed that Daron addresses Ormond as Sare now rather than Sire since Daron is now King. King with quotation marks.

[01:08:50] And also, the guy who Damon kills in King's Landing calls Daron, Daron the Daring. But how did he get that nickname? That's the first time. I mean, that is his nickname from the book, but we haven't heard him called that in the show and he hasn't really done anything in the show where he would earn that nickname. So.

[01:09:14] No, I have to say, with Daron, at least I kind of feel like, hey, there's a king maybe I could get behind. Right? He seems like a nice kid. Yeah. Did Ormond not say it this episode? Something about having dubbed him Daron the Daring? Did he? If you did, I missed that. Maybe not. Maybe it was just what I heard the other day.

[01:09:36] I saw something that the guy who Damon killed, that we did see him, not just at the end of that other episode as being who was communicating with Ormond, but he was also one of the soldiers or commanders on the wall when Alicent and Helena went to say, like, stand down and let Rhaenyra. Okay. Yep. And you can recognize him. I didn't clock that until the internet told me. Yeah, you can recognize him because he has heterochromia. His eyes are two different colors.

[01:10:06] Ah. Yes, I didn't come up with that myself. I also found that on the internet. I thought the interaction between Kat and Hugh was very interesting. That was just sad all around. Kat says, I need you here on the ground, not flying around on some dragon.

[01:10:28] She also says that he smells different, which is kind of a callback to Rhaenyra's mother knowing that she'd been out dragon riding because she reeked of dragon. So that's another step in Hugh's transformation. Yeah. Yeah. I think both Hugh and Ulf were pushed pretty far right at the end of this episode.

[01:10:56] When Alicent and Rhaenyra are talking, when Rhaenyra tells her she has to go to Harrenhal, Alicent grabs her arm right where the scar is from when Alicent cut her. And there's a little extra attention drawn to it because Rhaenyra kind of looks at her arm and pulls her sleeve down a little bit.

[01:11:24] So it's a reminder that Alicent attacked her with a knife in the past. She also pushed her to try to say what she is to her. Yes. Did you notice Helena playing with a little carved wooden horse? Yeah. Was that one of her kids? I wondered if it was a Trojan horse. Ah.

[01:11:50] Because I just saw the Odyssey, so of course I thought, oh, it's a little model Trojan horse. Okay, here's one that I tried hard to find some significance for and didn't find it. So Orman sends the message to Rhaenyra, written in blood on the tunic of one of the assassins, kick this dog and it will bite your hand.

[01:12:20] Of course, the hand being Corleese, right? But dog. I couldn't find any association between the Hightowers and dogs. So I don't know. I mean, clearly the it will bite your hand part makes a lot of sense, but I don't know that there's any particular significance to the rest of it.

[01:12:45] And I have no idea what Orman is planning with Corleese other than maybe to try to enlist him, to get him to try to switch sides, because Orman was saying that the only smart thing that Rhaenyra did was make Corleese her hand because he has good breeding. And my last note is a question, which is, what is Orman's plan?

[01:13:16] Gwaine says to him, what is your plan? And we don't get an answer. And I wonder if Orman really has a plan or if he's just making it up as he goes along. I think he does from all the groundwork they've laid about him being a, you know, a canny guy who always has a scheme working. And then, um, so I haven't quite figured out exactly what it is either.

[01:13:45] Obviously a large part of it is to destabilize King's Landing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, but I think he does have a plan. I guess we will see. Because he's got a king to substitute. He's already got the destabilization plot working. Now he's got the hand of his rival. So you have a lot of ingredients there. Yeah.

[01:14:13] Um, do you have any other notes, David? I do not. Okay. Uh, well, we move on to news. Veronica? All right. So, Rennie pulled these really nice articles for us once again. Thank you. Um, so from Y Entertainment, written by Jeremy Mathai, we have House of the Dragons Season 3's

[01:14:42] Two Unexpected Romances Explained. Oh, hang on a minute, Veronica. I made an error in, uh, go to this. I put your name on this one. Oh, okay. You're gonna read this one? But I meant to put your name on the one who killed Kristen Cole. Ooh! Yeah, let's swap. Yeah, you read that one, who killed Kristen Cole. Okay, do you want me to start with that one? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. All right.

[01:15:07] So from Hollywood Life, written by Elizabeth McGowan, we have Who Killed Kristen Cole in House of the Dragons Season 3? Shortly after Season 3, Episode 6 of House of the Dragon dropped on HBO, the internet quickly blew up with spoilers on one character's tragic fate. Sir Kristen Cole, or Fabian Frankel, is killed by one of the most mysterious faces in the series. So who ended Kristen's life on the show?

[01:15:35] Alison Blackwood, played by Annie Shapiro, kills Cole in Episode 6 of Season 3. Her appearance is only a few seconds, but it's long enough to sever the major character's fate. This wasn't the first time that Alicine, Alicine, aka Black Allie, has appeared in House of the Dragon. She's been seen in ensemble moments, but Episode 6 of Season 3 was a breakout for the character, as well as the actress in the series.

[01:16:03] While speaking with Elle ahead of the episode's premiere, Shapiro opened up about her character's life-changing move in Killing Cole. I'd received the episode, or the parts that I was in, and I didn't know that I'd be doing that until I read it, the actress explained. I remember I was going through it on the way to one of the horse training sessions, and I think I audibly gasped when I read it. I'm not even kidding. Calling the battle scenes such a gift to be a part of, Shapiro noted that as the only female in that realm,

[01:16:31] she found it pretty exhilarating to take out a man who has been incredibly hard to take down on the show. And also, just like someone who I feel like has been sexist in many of his views, it was a poetic justice that a woman fired those arrows to take him down. How exciting to be that character and not know you're going to get to do that, and then find out. You're taking down Crispy Cole.

[01:17:03] Okay. Actually, I had meant for you to read the first one, because the title isn't what the content is. I thought I was wrong, but I was actually right, so I was wrong about being wrong. Who says two wrongs don't make a right? So the title of this article is House of the Dragons Season 3's Two Unexpected Romances Explained from Y Entertainment by Jeremy Mattai.

[01:17:30] And it does talk about Alan and Bela and Eamond and Alice, but it doesn't really say a whole lot about those. But it does start out talking about Chris and Cole's death. So, love him or hate him, House of the Dragons' most controversial knight just fought in his final battle. Sir Christian Cole, played by Fabian Frankel, is dead in the Riverlands. The writers are loving an anticlimactic bow and arrow hat trick this season.

[01:18:00] Rest in peace, Jace Valerian. You'll be in our hearts forever. And now Sir Christian Cole is the latest victim. Is it the glorious death in battle that he desired? Absolutely not. Is it the death he deserved? According to Frankel, who spoke to HBO's Inside... Spoke in HBO's Inside the episode following episode 6, Cole knows that it's over and there's a relief in that for him. Since the first season, Cole's been nothing but a nuisance, a traitor and a hypocrite,

[01:18:28] not just thanks to his treatment of Rhaenyra Targaryen, but also his subsequent jealousy-fueled relationship with Alison Hightower. But are the fans happy with how Cole was sent off? Immediately after the episode, fans took to the dedicated Reddit community to share their thoughts, with one commenter declaring Cole's death as a wild way to start off the episode. Another fan called killing him off right at the start of the episode, extra salt in the wound from a narrative perspective,

[01:18:58] while a third said that it was abrupt and unceremonious as possible. One fan of the show pointed out the irony of Cole often making whiny, dramatic speeches about losing the war to dragons, likening their armies to mere cannon fodder, only to die unceremoniously at the hand of foot soldiers with no dragons in sight. All in all, it was a swift end to one of the most agonizing characters in the series. Though some fans say good riddance,

[01:19:28] Veronica, others are a bit more forgiving of Frankel's take on the contemptuous character. Fabian Frankel, you absolutely nailed the character of Kristen Cole, one fan wrote on social media. When you truly hate a character, it usually means the actor did an incredible job. I mean, I'll agree with that. I do not hate Fabian Frankel and think he nailed this role. Yeah. Um, but good riddance.

[01:19:59] All right. Um, we have some listener feedback. Uh, David, would you like to read the first one? Okay. Uh, Kelly Burgess says, I love the battle at the front because it was a bit shocking. I also appreciated the death of crispy coal. Only wish they hadn't shown him trying to be noble and die for his troops. I feel like Darren and Gwaine are the most decent of everyone, which has me fearing that they won't be around much longer.

[01:20:28] Aegon and Larys have become my favorite duo. And honestly, I would like to see more of them. Damon and Rhaenyra should not be ruling and it's becoming more obvious. I'm looking forward to the last two episodes of the season and have really enjoyed listening to the podcast this season, especially hearing Veronica shout me out and admit to having more empathy for Alison. Only a little bit, but it's there. Matt King says, at last,

[01:20:56] Sir Kristen meets his maker and gets an arrow in the eye like King Harold in 1066 at Hastings. Alison will be gutted when she finds out her man looks like an archery target. Gwaine saves the day by foiling Baratheon assassins from killing Ormond, but poor Darren wants to leave with Gwaine. Seeing Olf and Hugh getting knockbacks may lead to them getting a bit trigger happy with their dragons and possibly roasting Tumbleton out of anger.

[01:21:26] Damon decking Olf in public might just push him over the edge. Corleese, no, just two episodes left. I like that trigger happy with their dragon. Right? And we have one bit of feedback about last week's episode from Alicia Stout. Who the hell told Sir Crispy that he was the greatest warrior in all of Westeros? He told himself.

[01:21:55] I said that wasn't Alicia. That was me. Alicia says, What a joke. I can't wait until we see his demise. Hopefully it's soon. Well, your wish was granted, Alicia. Lol. His patheticness is tiresome and I despise him more each episode. Yawn. Please tell me there aren't any songs written about him. You see why I was excited to pull this comment from last week? Yeah.

[01:22:25] It would, it would be cheering. It would be really funny if we, um, heard a song in the next episode. Uh, old Kristen died with no glory. La la la. It would be funny. Yeah. There was like a, uh, what is it? Are they called mummers? Like if there was a mummers, like funny song about him, I would enjoy that.

[01:22:46] Maybe that's how Alison finds out about his death through like a joke song at a tavern and not a song of his bravery. Yeah. This was a character people were really waiting for. Yes. To get what was coming to him. It's true. All right. If you are so inclined, stay tuned for book talk, which we will be doing as always in two parts. The first part,

[01:23:15] we'll just talk about the book to show comparison to the point where we are. And then we will give us big spoiler warning and talk about future, uh, events to come. So next week, we will be covering season three, episode seven, unnamed so far,

[01:23:38] but penultimate so far season from the faceless men to the nameless episode from the faceless men. The nameless episode. Yes, exactly. That would be hilarious to have an episode called the nameless episode. Yeah. Uh, you can leave feedback at our podcast, a Facebook group where we post weekly feedback threads, or you can leave feedback or voicemails by email at dragons at podcast. podcast.com.

[01:24:08] And you can find all of our contact information at podcast.com. Are you all listening to any other podcast to a podcast? I can't answer that because the answer may tend to incriminate me. I'm still listening to the rewatch, the walking dead. Nice rewatch. I need to catch up. Yeah, I'm behind. I am behind. I just, uh,

[01:24:37] watched the baseball bat episode. And next I will be listening to the podcast about that. The infamous baseball, baseball, that episode. Yeah. I did hear that dead city is back and I still need to finish season two, but I was very surprised today to see that there are some very positive

[01:25:02] reviews going around saying season three has justified the existence of the show. Oh, interesting. Curious to check it out. Yes. I haven't watched the first episode. I think. Yeah. I haven't watched the first episode yet because this, but, um, I, I will be watching it very soon. Yeah. And this isn't current, but, um, my amazing wife was,

[01:25:30] has been involved in covering both Pluribus. Oh, that was so good. And they did a rewatch of severance and I really enjoyed both of those. So can't wait for both of those shows to come back. Yes. Yeah. I listened to both the Pluribus coverage was, which I thought was great. I loved the show. And I listened to the severance coverage. Severance just didn't catch me up the way it caught up so many people, but listening to the podcast helped me appreciate it more.

[01:26:00] So that was really good. Yeah. Yeah. And I know we both. So, um, just watching through the rewatch in the prep for that, um, we both saw and caught way more of the second time around in severance that we had missed the first time. There's a lot of stuff going on in that show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening, everyone. Until next time, I'm still Veronica. And I will remain David.

[01:26:30] And I'm Rennie. Dracarys. Okay. All right. So much of this episode, it does, doesn't happen in the book. Right. But some things, some things do. So Kristen Cole's death was very similar to how it happened in the book. Yeah. Just a little bit of change of people. Right. Yeah. Um, well,

[01:26:59] one difference is that in the book, he was leading a large army and they were the ones who were being harassed along the march by the river, river land forces rather than he having a small group doing the gorilla tactics. So that's, that's different. Um, but some of the, some of the dialogue is lifted directly out of the book in the confrontation, although the people are different. Um,

[01:27:29] so he does say our death in answer to the question, who are they, uh, in the book, same as in the show. And he does offer to settle the battle by fighting a duel, um, um, so that his men will be spared. Um, uh, but there are three who he would fight instead of two. Uh, so the three people who come forward from the army to meet Cole are Sir Garibald Gray,

[01:27:58] who had fought at the fish feed, Pate of Longleaf, who killed Jason Lannister at the battle of the Red Fork, and Roddy the Ruin. So it's the three of them. Um, and, uh, Garibald Gray, uh, says, um, Kristen says, asks if he'll, you know, spare his forces if, um, if he surrenders.

[01:28:26] And it's Garibald Gray who says, I made my promises to the dead. I told them I would build a sept for them out of traitor's bones. I don't have enough bones yet. And, um, uh, Oscar Tully. Oscar said that, right? He says a version of that. Not exactly, but a version of that. Yeah. Um, and when Kristen points out that many of theirs will die if there's a battle,

[01:28:56] Roddy the Ruin says almost exactly the same thing he says in the show. He says, that's why we come. Winter's here. Time for us to go. No better way to die than sword in hand. And they just cut out part of it. I think he just says, that's why we come. No better way to die than sword in hand. So he doesn't say the part about winter's here. Yeah. Um, when Cole asks if one of him versus three of them is enough to make a fight of it, uh, Longleaf, the lion slayer,

[01:29:26] as he's known says, I'll want three more and red Rob rivers, the greatest archer in Westeros, who's the one who shot down the Ravens who were sent to Harrenhal to call for help at the fish feed. He, he, and two other archers, they lose their arrows at the same time. And all three arrows hit Cole at the same time, but they hit him in the same spots where they hit in the, in the show. Um, um,

[01:29:54] one of them say the line about it's long, Longleaf says, I'll have no songs about how brave you died. King maker. There's tens of thousands dead on your account. I did appreciate the change of having Kristen say that like as a prelude, the episode before, and I think it fit better with the character. They built Kristen to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, I think that works.

[01:30:21] I think a lot of book readers were waiting for the line, you know, here, but it was there last week. So yeah, it was there. Yeah. Uh, so then the, there's a battle between the two forces and, um, it calls forces are exhausted and dis disheartened. And the battle is a route and Cole's forces are pretty much wiped out. And it comes to be known as the butcher's ball, that battle.

[01:30:52] And is it Roddy who says something about how like it wasn't even, but he makes some comment about, like it shouldn't have been considered a fight. It was just like butcher. I guess that's why it's called butcher's ball. That's right. Yeah, that's right. That it was so one-sided. Yeah. Um, so Alan and Bela do indeed get together in the book, but much later down the timeline.

[01:31:22] And, um, it's because Bela is escaping the marriage that the small council has arranged for her. They set up somebody for her to marry. Um, is this spoilery? Uh, no, uh, no, just, they set up somebody for her to marry and she goes off to Dragonstone, uh, or rather to, um, Driftmark and comes back married to Alan in order to not marry somebody she doesn't want to marry. So I don't think that's spoilery.

[01:31:52] Um, which they almost like alluded to with Adam's little comment last week. Like I would come fly away and rescue you if you had to be married off to someone. Yes, exactly. Yeah. She's also portrayed in the book as like quite promiscuous. That feels like such a ridiculous word to use. Let me just let everyone know I'm cringing at myself using that word. But in the book,

[01:32:19] she's like really like kind of boy crazy and like gets caught with like the, some kitchen helps hand down her pants and stuff like that. And so like if we'd had that Bela, it wouldn't have been so surprising that she's just like, Hey Alan, let's make out. I know. It just didn't feel set up. Well, in the show. No, in the book, she's definitely her father's offspring. Yeah. Yeah. She's much more like,

[01:32:49] uh, Damon. Um, but, uh, yeah, uh, that's why it was so weird last week when there was definitely that flirtation between Adam and, and Pela, but, uh, uh, she, she, she knew what, what she wanted and she went for it. So good for her. Uh,

[01:33:18] pretty much nothing else at all in this episode happens in the book. Although there are some things that point to other things, which, um, needs to lead us into the spoiler section. Cause I don't think we can talk about any of those in a, um, in a non spoilery way. Yeah. You agree? Or is there anything else you want to say here?

[01:33:49] I don't think so. I mean, the things that I just had a few things noted that sort of finally they've gotten to what such as like Rhaenyra getting cut by the throne, which was sort of happening all along. I think by the point that you read about Kristen Cole's death in the book, there's at least established that Eamon and Alice have some sort of romantic goings on. And so they've gotten there now in this story. Um,

[01:34:18] Corlys was not anywhere where this would have happened to him. So like that definitely is off story. I think that's it, I guess. Okay. Well, now we're going to move into the spoilery section. Here is your spoiler warning. All right.

[01:34:48] Spoilers ahead. And there are, uh, big, big spoilers here because we have, uh, some things in here that I think point towards really big events. Awesome. Okay. Um, so. Hugh and Ulf are going to. Become the two betrayers.

[01:35:13] And I think that both of them in this episode got enough to move them in that, um, direction. Uh, Damon's assault on Ulf. I think could have been a last straw for Ulf, especially because he humiliated him in front of his friends. Ulf is very popular in Flea Bottom and that's where they were when that happened. Um,

[01:35:41] and I think the scene between Hugh and Kat is meant to show us how much he's, he's become a Targaryen himself. Um, although he was always capable of brutality. Remember when, um, the boats come to deliver food to King's Landing during the blockade. And instead of going down to the docks to try to get someone of his own, he just grabs, knocks somebody else down and grabs theirs. Um, yeah. So, um, he's just,

[01:36:12] uh, all, he's always had that capability, but now that's really coming, uh, to the fore. And I think Pat's rejection of him is going to put him, um, on edge enough that something can push him over. Do you think we're working towards a combination of the two battles at

[01:36:40] Tumbleton being a single battle? I don't, I don't. I think we're going to get the first battle of Tumbleton in episode eight. And then, um, you know how there's that whole plot to take down, um, Hugh and Ulf, and it's the Caltrops who are the plotters. And we got a shout out to that last week when, you know,

[01:37:10] they called him, I can't remember what they called the things the horses stepped on. Um, but the technical name for those devices is Caltrops, right? They called them crow's feet, but, but we, they're known as Caltrops. So, you know, but, um, there is a, a character in the book. I can't remember his name right now who, um, lures, um, Ulf into drinking with him and it's poison wine.

[01:37:39] And he drinks the wine and he, then he plans to throw it up later. Um, I think that they may give that storyline to Gwaine. And so I think that they will play that out and then we'll get second Tumbleton later or not. Or, yeah, I don't know how much of second Tumbleton we might. The only reason I was asking, the only thing that made me this episode trying to consider this was them getting Corlys, um,

[01:38:09] capturing him. Yeah. And that seems like a good impetus to send Adam of whole dashing over to Tumbleton. Uh-huh. And so that was the only piece that. Uh-huh. They may start wondering if there could be some like condensation of events, but I don't know, like is Ormond going to die?

[01:38:37] Like he's played such a different and such a larger role. Is he going to die in the first battle of Tumbleton or are they somehow? I don't know. I'm just, I'm having a hard time understanding how things are going to play out and like, are Hugh and Ulf going to go bargain with Ormond in some way? Or do they just sort of go rogue as other armies approach? I don't,

[01:39:06] I still feel like confused and the book doesn't give us any insight into their, how their betrayal like hatched. That's right. I'm not sure. I obviously see how they're getting pushed there, but I'm having a hard time seeing how they go into fighting for the greens versus just like going, just leafing off on their own, you know? Yeah. Yeah. They'll be interesting to see how they, how they manage that.

[01:39:36] Yeah. So we have two episodes left. And so next week, Alison will go to Harrenhal to betray Amon, but I think Alice will prevent that. Um, I kind of think Amon will still be at Harrenhal at the end of the season. I think so. Yeah. Because there's like living there and maybe he reunites with Vhagar and starts to do some ranging,

[01:40:05] but I agree. Because they're going to put off the Amon-Damon battle as long as they can. Yeah. Because I don't think they, they don't want to kill off those two characters. Wow. And so I don't think that'll happen until mid season next season, which is way later in the timeline than it happens in the book, but that's okay. I, you know, they, they can, they can tread water on that one for a while. Yeah. Uh, one thing I think that's interesting is that they're,

[01:40:35] the whole point of that Raina storyline, uh, not well done as it was, um, is that they're setting it up for Jane Aaron to kick Raina out of the veil. So at that point she'll join up with Damon. Yeah. And next season, Raina and Damon will be searching for Amon and Agar. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:41:00] So then I think there will be either the first battle or both battles of Templeton will be in episode eight. And the other thing that I think is going to happen in episode eight, and it may be the very last scene of episode eight is that Agon will reunite with Sunfire. Oh yes. I, I think so too. That's what I, that's where my head was going was. Yeah. With Agon and wondering how his,

[01:41:28] like what's going to cause him to go back to find Sunfire. And I'm wondering, I was rereading today and there's that one little segment in the book that just has this like side story about what's his face. I forget which Lord it is, but goes off to like approach a dragon with a mirrored shield. And there's like no real, like it's just this little side story. No one even knows which dragon. Right.

[01:41:58] Actually did it to. And I'm wondering, especially because they just referenced the story of the mirrored shield in a night of the seven kingdoms. If they will play out that side story and it will somehow have something to do with Sunfire. Cause I could envision if Sunfire suddenly stirs that some of these small folk that are like

[01:42:24] guarding him and selling people time could possibly like spread that word. And someone comes to try to like mess with them. I don't know. That's just my little theory, but it's just a little like weird side mention in the book that that even happens. And it's hard for me to imagine them not wanting to like show that on screen. Cause it is kind of an interesting little thing, especially with night of the seven kingdoms having referenced it.

[01:42:54] Huh? Entirely possible. Yeah. Yeah. You know, in the, um, on the season, the trailer for the season, not for the next episode, but you know, for the whole season, there's a, there's a shot of Aegon looking up and I'm pretty sure he's looking up because he's seeing Sunfire. And, uh, and I, I wouldn't be surprised if that's like the last shot. That would be really good.

[01:43:24] Yeah. And obviously Aegon's not going to Bravo's. No. Um, in the book, he's on Driftmark or on Dragonstone rather. Yeah. Um, and, uh, that's where he reunites with Sunfire. But I think that he'll reunite with Sunfire before he leaves the mainland. And then because he's got the dragon back, he'll get the idea of going to hang out on Dragonstone. Yeah.

[01:43:55] Uh, so speaking of dragons, as for the dragon eggs. Ooh. Yes. Tell me what your hypothesis is. Alice takes off with Aemond on Vhagar. And then he brings her back to Harrenhal when he comes to have his face off with Daemon. So Alice has left Harrenhal for a while and then she comes back. Um, and after the, after the dance is over,

[01:44:23] after Rhaenyra and Aegon II are both gone, um, during the Regency of Aegon III, Alice holds Harrenhal and she gathers an army of broken men and bandits there. And Tylan Lannister is serving as Hand of the King.

[01:44:46] And he sends a small force to go reclaim Harrenhal because they've heard that a witch queen is holding it with his army of outlaws. Um, and so Alice presents a boy who she claims to be Aemon's true born son and the true king. Uh, and she sends a message back with a messenger, um,

[01:45:15] saying all that. And that messenger also claims to have seen a dragon at Harrenhal and nobody believes him. But what if one of those eggs hatches and there is a dragon at Harrenhal when Alice is in possession of it? Hmm. That could happen. So we don't know in the book what the end of Alice's story is,

[01:45:45] whether or not there really is a dragon there, whether or not she really has, uh, a son of Aemon's because fire and blood ends before we get the rest of her story. But there definitely is a report that there is a dragon at Harrenhal. I think I just, in general have liked,

[01:46:08] the reference to all these different clutches of eggs throughout the series because I think it opens up the idea that within the world, like, those eggs that Danny found while they were rare, it's not such an impossibility that there are more of those eggs laying around. And, like, even if we don't get more stories, I think just as a, like,

[01:46:36] appreciator and fan of the world, I like to imagine what different stories could have played out. And it just opens up the possibilities of, like, you know, what could have come where we left off at the, you know, kind of final bit of history. The theory we know of Westeros, it opens up the idea of other possibilities because we know there are more Targaryens than we really thought, and possibly more eggs than are really known. Yeah. out in the world.

[01:47:06] And maybe there are other dragons still out in the world, you know? Right. That's right. Not in Westeros, but elsewhere. Yeah. Well, you know, one of the fan theories is that there might be dragon eggs at Winterfell from Burmax, Jace's dragon, from when he was up there with Cregan Stark. I mean, yeah, there are also these wild dragons, like, there's just so many possibilities for eggs to be around.

[01:47:36] Yep. Yep. I like it. All right. Well, I'm really curious to see what they're going to do in these next two episodes, so. Me too. Yep. All right. All right. Awesome. There are a bunch of ways to prevent crime that no one is talking about, like how wind direction can make your community more violent or peaceful, and how GLP-1 meds could reduce felonies.

[01:48:05] This is Fighting Crime, where we ask the big questions. What if we've been having the wrong conversations about crime? Two policies, ban the box and clean slate, don't seem to be helping, even though they sounded like they should or they would. I'm your host, Christina Quinn. I'm going across the country from prisons to universities, police chiefs to inmates, to look at the evidence and question everything we think we know about how to make America safer.

[01:48:32] Economists think a lot about how people respond to incentives. If we want to reduce crime and change behavior, we need to increase the costs or reduce the benefit. Join us as we figure out new ways to fight crime and be prepared to think differently. Fighting Crime. Listen or watch on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and Spotify. Lee C. Camp here. If you've been enjoying this show, I think you might enjoy my podcast, No Small Endeavor, produced by Great Feeling Studios and PRX.

[01:49:02] No Small Endeavor explores what it means to live a good life. We sit down with courageous, impassioned people like actor Martin Sheen or civil rights hero James Lawson to ask what it means to live a life worth living. Follow No Small Endeavor wherever you get your podcasts. Living a good life is no small endeavor, and we would love to help.