11: “A Dream of a Thousand Cats/Calliope” (S1E11)

[00:00:00] S1E11, Sandman Cast, Podcastica Hello and welcome to the Sandman Cast Podcast. My name is Jamie. And I'm Mark. And I'm Laura. And we're here to discuss Netflix's show, The Sandman Season 1, Episode 11, Dream of a Thousand Cats and Calliope. This is the bonus episode.

[00:00:54] It's a spoiler filled podcast for this and previous episodes so if you haven't watched, please pause and come back once you've watched or stick around if you don't mind spoilers. Exactly, but this is our last episode to be to let everybody know.

[00:01:08] So this was the bonus episode of the season. So the synopsis for this episode, mind you there's two parts. So in this two-part story collection, a Siamese cat dreaming of a new world and then a writer in desperate need of inspiration crosses paths with Morpheus.

[00:01:28] It comes it up very succinctly. And the first episode is called Cats, ladies and gentlemen. So keep that in mind. These are two short stories. And actually Cats is the shortest story of these. Dream of a Thousand Cats. Dream of a Thousand Cats.

[00:01:46] It actually just shows up as Cats and Calliope on Netflix when you look at it. Yeah, I knew it was Dream of a Thousand Cats. I don't think I even... It's not Cats the weird musical that came out in the theaters earlier.

[00:02:00] Yeah, the one where they had a lot of CG. And the creepy looking human cats. So that I'm Broadway in the late 80s? Wow, well that ran the longest, but we're talking about Cats by Neil Gaiman. We're talking about Dream of a Thousand Cats.

[00:02:17] Okay, to correct everybody because that's probably what it was in the comic, correct? Yeah. Okay. So they enjoyed both of these bonus episodes. They worked perfectly as bonus episodes. They weren't tied to the main arc of season one, but they were these sort of delicious

[00:02:36] after-dinner drinks where they were little tidbit stories. Neil loves to throw these into his comic quick run of The Sandman. Sometimes the stories will link into other story arcs down the road and sometimes they're just standalone stories that happen in the dreaming. So I thought it was awesome.

[00:02:57] I loved it and as a cat lover, I especially loved Dream of a Thousand Cats. Awesome. I completely agree with you. I think it was like the nice little cherry on top of our really good season. Sunday of a really good season.

[00:03:12] Dream of a Thousand Cats was just visually absolutely stunning. Yeah. It was... Yeah. I love the way they did the animation. The voice actors were great. Everything about it I thought was fantastic. And then Calliope was so interesting. It was brilliant. Yeah.

[00:03:30] Watching what someone will do for fame and success. And then learning a little bit more about Morpheus was also really cool. Yeah, I really enjoyed both. I was not familiar with these at all. The Cats was like I said was the shortest but I was really...

[00:03:48] I just loved the whole animation that they gave this. The way it was presented, it looked beautiful. It was a little annoyed. I loved David Tennant and we didn't get much out of Tennant except for the intro

[00:04:05] of him and talking to the cat and things of that nature. I loved the story premise behind it and how Cats could dream and Morpheus was involved. The little story about them being large was... It just invoked the imagination in myself.

[00:04:21] Plus having Arthur Darval actually another Doctor Who alumni and he was Matt Smith's companion and his Doctor Who run and I really loved Darval. He was also in the Legends of Tomorrow too. I always know him as Rip Hunter as well as Rory from Doctor Who.

[00:04:42] Anybody who watched Doctor Who and doesn't absolutely love Rory Pond has not watched Doctor Who. Yeah, and I just loved his presentation in it too. We get a little bit more of Morpheus in this. We get more information.

[00:04:57] I did not know he was married to a muse and then had a child too according to the muse herself, Galliope. And I thought the story overall was great. It gave me a hint of Tales from the Dark Side at the Twilight Zone.

[00:05:15] Kind of a story like that. And there was... And it's not a story that hasn't been told before based upon muses because they have done that before. Stephen King had one years ago and a story that he had done.

[00:05:32] And there was another movie, which was a comedy that was literally called Muse. And it was a screenwriter. But in this case, this was a more serious take on holding a muse for inspiration as it were to create what he had to do.

[00:05:53] But I just loved the wrath that Morpheus gave him at the end. Yeah. All right. We'll break up the key points into two sections since it's two separate things. So we'll start with A Dream of a Thousand Cats because that was the first one.

[00:06:07] And again, the thing that took away Furroment first on foremost was the animation style. It was very dreamy. Anybody else have any want to talk about the animation style or...? Well, it was very fluid and it's not very cartoony in any respect.

[00:06:24] It kind of gave me like a Don Bluth movie and very much like Dragon Slayer where the motion was very fluid, like human-like. Yeah, I think they did a rotoscope technique where they actually take real footage and then they paint the animation over the film footage. Over it.

[00:06:44] Yeah, I just love that style. And I think sometimes it can come off really great and sometimes really weird because I think back in the 70s, they did Lord of the Rings in that same rotoscope style and some of it looks a little weird.

[00:06:59] Yeah, because they always had shadowing or they just when they cut away, it didn't look right. But at certain points, it does look fluid. That was a Don Bluth thing, just like Dragon Slayer, like I said. That always attracted to me that kind of animation style.

[00:07:15] But the story is always intriguing too. The idea that if you have enough people dreaming or enough beings dreaming the same thing, that they can change reality. And I love when this episode came out.

[00:07:28] So many people on Facebook posted their cats watching the episode on TV as it was going. And everyone's saying, don't we know how dangerous this is? It only takes a thousand of them. Yeah, and it could grow huge and devour us.

[00:07:46] They would play with us like they would birds and they're better than birds, apparently. I don't know. I including me and others have said that we welcome our feline overlords. Yeah, my sister just got one too.

[00:08:02] So she in an apartment building where we're not allowed to have animals, she has one. So she has someone to boss around now. Yeah, Midas. That's his name. But he's a cute cat. Nice charcoal looking cat. He's got these cool looking eyes.

[00:08:19] But after I watched the episode, I'm like, you better not stay in my place. Well, it won't you won't remember. Yes, everything will be erased. And we started over the innocent introduction to it because it's a kitten that's owned.

[00:08:39] And then there's a calling and then she goes out with the other cats and it's a gathering. And it's like somebody having this. This whole little speech and explaining of the world to these cats. And then we do get Morpheus in cat form too, within the dreaming.

[00:09:00] Yeah. And it's I love that the gatherings in a cemetery like that's just so Neil Gaiman that that's where they're hanging out is in the cemetery. It's very gothic and Neil Gaiman like because he also wrote the book,

[00:09:11] the graveyard book where yeah, that basically takes place in a graveyard. I thought that it was great that we got to get all those voices. Like you mentioned, Mark, we got David Tennant and so many other people

[00:09:25] who have worked for Neil Gaiman in the past and also did voices for the audible narrative like I think we got James McAvoy, Michael Sheen, we got Neil himself. Not I think there's a few others, but I was so happy to see them appear in the credits.

[00:09:46] We got David Tennant and his wife, Georgia and Michael Sheen's wife, Anna were in there. I like that they brought them like the couples were actual couples. I thought that was like a cute little touch. And I don't even think they had to be asked.

[00:09:59] I think they they asked to be a part of Sandman and from what I hear because they only contributed their voices to the show that if later on, if there are more seasons and they want to come back as a character

[00:10:12] on the show that they will be allowed to do that. I like that. David Tennant is in the act two of the audible drama. Yeah, he plays Loki. Yeah, he does it so well too. I enjoyed that.

[00:10:25] Well, I really liked getting to hear Neil as the old crow. He has such a distinctive voice. Yeah, I love how we talk to the cat. I love the cat. She has such a cat attitude. Just her I am a cat. The cat and you know the Siamese.

[00:10:41] The Siamese. Like I'm a cat. I follow my own path, which is so like a cat. And Siamese, I feel are the most cat like cats. Yeah, they're definitely the most vocal. My daughter has one and we used to have one and they are extremely vocal cats.

[00:11:00] I had a a found on the street cat that I'm pretty sure was mixed with Siamese because he had that longer nose and the point your ears and boy, did he love to talk. Trying to tell you something. Oh, what I did wrong all the time.

[00:11:15] You left me. You didn't leave me enough. Why is my food bowl empty? Why are the curtains drawn? It's not empty. I can see the bottom. OK, me human. I love your plushies. I loved the look of Morpheus as a cat, though.

[00:11:35] I love that we get to see him in different forms and he is a huge black cat with glowing eyes, which is a bit of a callback to the first episode when he when. Oh, now I'm forgetting names. Burgess's son finds him in his dreams

[00:11:52] and follows him up the stairs as a cat and he turns into the dream king. Yeah, yeah, little Easter eggs always come back. Love that there was one part of the movie and it's typical game and you have to put in something that's a little bit tragic.

[00:12:05] But it was very important to the story. And that was with the Siamese when, you know, she went out. She had kittens and obviously the owner did not like that. And I was so gruesome that he takes these cats,

[00:12:21] puts them in a bag with a brick and just tosses them and she could hear their voices in the dreaming. But it was pertinent to her story and her talking about her dreaming and going there. The the crow that it's not or even its crow.

[00:12:39] They actually stayed in in some time. So that game in place, that was very eerie because the head and neck were all scaled. And in the rest of it, you can see the bones coming through sewing. But you do see a graveyard of cat skeletons and skulls.

[00:12:56] And they were very large, too. So it fits to the idea of what the the crow gives as far as information regarding their dreaming and what they were dreamed of before. I like that. And we get to see the the palace of the dreaming in cat form,

[00:13:14] which is a cave, I suppose. But it's still guarded by the three guardians of the palace, which is the griffin, the wyvern and the hippogriff who give the the cat a little bit of grief. And she just rebuts them by telling them that, you know,

[00:13:31] she'll keep her own counsel and she's there to see the dream lord. Yeah, I thought that was fantastic. That was so really cool to see something they could have easily left out and they chose not to. Yeah, and it's typical, too, with mythical beings like that.

[00:13:44] Some of them are mythical and it had that air in there, too. Because later on we do find out we get a little bit of Greek mythology involved into the next episode with Calliope, which I did enjoy. Shall we move on to Calliope?

[00:14:01] Sure. Again, just fantastic episode where you again, the visuals were a little different than a normal show. Like it still felt kind of like a dream. Like everything was a little bit darker and even at the parties and stuff,

[00:14:14] it all felt a little dreamy, a little soft around the edges, I would say. The colors to me seemed very dark and rich. Like you didn't see a lot of lightness. There is a lot of like dark, rich colors in the interiors

[00:14:27] and in just everything had this like dark wood, dark fabric kind of feel to it. You know, you didn't have a lot of big light interiors, kind of like if you compared it to the house that Hector and Lita lived in, was bright and white and open.

[00:14:44] These had some very dark lush interiors. So I think that kind of gave to that feeling of, I don't know, dreaminess and softness to it. Yeah, it was a lot of shadowy, dark. It's very much hindering based upon how I think the way they were trying

[00:15:05] to do is the way she was feeling very trapped and very much like what Morpheus too, because at that time we find out it was during that time too, Morpheus was trapped as well. He was but they were both literally imprisoned.

[00:15:17] So it's kind of like reflecting on her imprisonment. I think the only time you saw real light who is in the very beginning when he's giving his lecture at the school. Yeah, a normal lighting. Yeah. Yeah, he gets. I really like this because the Calliope story.

[00:15:35] I would say that the Dream of a Thousand Cats is a is a good standalone story that could probably fit anywhere into this universe. But the Calliope story is very important to the salmon universe, not only because it gives us back story on dream,

[00:15:49] but it may be highly important in the future as well. We, you know, like you said, Mark, we got the reveal of him being married and having a child. And even when I read this originally in the comic books, I was like, what? Morpheus has a kid. Right.

[00:16:11] I know you would think he would attach himself to anyone, but you find out in here he was married at one time and had a family. Yeah. Because this was, I think, issue 17 of the comic. Like you've been in the comic for a while at this point.

[00:16:25] You just find out like, wait. He's married to a daughter of. Yes. I mean, because we learned about Nada pretty early on. And this is not Nada. So this is another lover of his. Is a man of a lot of love. He's always so brooding.

[00:16:43] Well, I mean, you've been around, been around for an eternity or some history, meet some people. And the fact that he does get it on, you know, he did have a kid. I just admired that aspect too, that, you know, she is a goddess herself.

[00:17:01] Muses are born, not created because she made he made Richard actually made that mistake in stating that that she was created so that, you know, and. He you would think that in the very beginning that Erasmus's recommendation of how to use her to get his inspiration being forceful

[00:17:26] instead of falling in love. I think Richard was at one point a little bit falling in love with her. You know, it doesn't really show it in the episode too much. But I think he might take on it was that he was just extremely desperate

[00:17:44] and he just really wanted to. Have this thing to help him and the one you know, she tells him. Well, she says first, you know, the traditional way to implore a muse for help was to, you know, give praise to her and sacrifice to her

[00:18:02] and things like that. So at first he gives her these these gifts. And as you look at them, they're kind of trashy gifts. It looks like, you know, I'm necklace, dress perfume and cheap jewelry and stuff. And she's like, this is what you think I'm asking for.

[00:18:20] And then she just she outright tells him, set me free and I may help you. You know, he's like, just let me go. But he doesn't want to listen to that because he is so desperate to make his deadline.

[00:18:33] And as you said, Mark, you know, he said that she was made, you know, he said, you're a muse. You were made for this. It's just his way of dehumanizing her and the way that Erasmus Fry tried to dehumanize her.

[00:18:47] He said, oh, these they were made to inspire us. They're they're nothing, they're possessions. And that's how he treated her. Trader to like trash, try to, you know, bribe her with Bloomingdale's gifts. But, you know, then he and he felt that he just needed that one book.

[00:19:08] And then he's talking about after the book came out and it's a smash hit wanting to go to California, taking her with him to promote it and to do more. Now, it's to her. It's like, oh, this is going to be a never ending cycle.

[00:19:25] I already feel the same way I did with Erasmus Fry. I'm still a prisoner to this person and I have to provide to give him some sort of inspiration. And that's when she kind of sneaks out of the bedroom, goes downstairs

[00:19:41] to his office and writes on Sharpie Morpheus. But she names him something else. Oneros, which is the Greek God of Dreams. Morpheus is the Roman God of Dreams. So she would obviously call him by his Greek name. Yep. So you get Morpheus written in Sharpie,

[00:20:04] but as soon as Rick with a with an OK takes that and he burns it in the fireplace, it burns up and literally puts out a calling to Morpheus himself. And he does show up, which is good.

[00:20:19] And then we find out how she wants and he is out for blood when he finds out what Richard was doing to her and what she had to live through with this whole imprisonment, not just from Richard, but also Erasmus.

[00:20:33] But his vengeance is basically on Richard at this point. You know, to me, I enjoyed that in the sense that it showed that Morpheus did care. How often do we get that? Usually, as Jamie likes to say throughout the season,

[00:20:49] he was a dick a lot to a lot of people. He was very dismissive. Yeah. In this case, he was very much there to do something, which I feel is great. And when he was like, no, it's because they hurt you. He hurt you.

[00:21:05] Like, I'm going to make this better because something was wrong to you. And, you know, I still care about you and we're going to fix this and we're going to make him hurt because, you know, nobody can touch you.

[00:21:17] You know, even if they're not together still, he's got an affection for her. Well, the cool part about the episode I thought was when she actually sees the newspaper and it kind of alludes to the previous stories,

[00:21:29] Sleeping Beauty Waking Up is the headline on the article that she does see. So it shows her that. Or any is or Morpheus or dream himself is back because that was like a spark of like, oh, he is back. He hasn't disappeared.

[00:21:48] So that was her way of actually trying to get in touch with him at that point. But it's kind of basically referencing everything that we had within the season because of people that were sleeping. Specifically about Unity Concade. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:03] I really liked when the fates she called out to the fates after. Well, after the scene that we don't see, but we are intrinsically supposed to know because of how they shot it. And I'll get to that point later. She calls out to the fates to help her.

[00:22:19] And that's how she finds out about Morpheus. And they basically tell her most of your contemporary gods are dead. They are not around to help you anymore. The endless might be help be able to help you, but they're having problems

[00:22:33] of their own and we get the backstory of her, you know, once being married to Dream, having a child and that child went down to Hades to find his love and died because of it. And if you're familiar at all with Greek mythology, you know that character.

[00:22:51] And I don't. Did they say his name? Do you remember? I don't remember them saying it. I don't think so. Like there's it was so close to the comic like I had to watch it twice.

[00:23:01] Be like, OK, wait, what was in the comic and what was in the show? Well, I won't say it in case it would be a spoiler. But it does relate to a very famous Greek myth. Yes. But yeah, I don't recall them saying

[00:23:14] the at all in the episode. So it's something that we can look forward to in season two if we get the actual official word. And even the fates can't save her because she was caught by the laws that were made before the the muses can even have any

[00:23:31] kind of say in it. I mean, these all refer to a lot of old rituals and myths that existed in ancient mythology. Yep. The parchment that was washed upon the shore where she left on the shore

[00:23:46] that Erasmus took and then he winds up reading it, knowing it and burning it. And then she's bound to him and then since he's gone and he handed her over to Richard, now she's bound to Richard. And it ends with him too, because we find out Erasmus Fry

[00:24:03] died and even Richard didn't even know that it was like a year later that he finds out and goes, Oh, just passed summer. He passed away and it was suicide through. What was it? He poisoned himself, which I found interesting

[00:24:17] because I wonder what people's theories are on that because the reason that he purchased Calliope is because he gave Erasmus a Bezor, which is basically the muddled up hair from a woman's stomach who eats her own hair. Yep, Rapunzel syndrome as he calls it.

[00:24:37] And it was supposed to ward off poison, but then he ends up poisoning himself, which is ironic. Which is it? Yeah. Interesting. My theory is that he was an idiot and he believed what happened if he was able to figure out that one myth was real,

[00:24:51] that he figured another would was real. So I think he tried to put the Bezor to the test and found out it didn't really work. And it was stupid. But yeah, and also is something that Richard actually mentions to

[00:25:08] I forget who it is or what her name was, but he mentions that that was in a book that Erasmus had written. And you would make him make you think he goes, That was a great book. I love that book. That's what inspired me to actually start writing.

[00:25:21] And he knew it very well. So he in his mind, he thought, OK, he was just taking on the part of the character that was in that book. And then, like you said, Larry probably was trying to test

[00:25:34] that theory of the myths to see if it would work for him. But apparently it didn't. Another one that I liked, this is Richard doing his typical lecture, but him losing his mind where Morpheus is there.

[00:25:48] And he's just literally making him lose his mind within the lecture hall. And everything that he was talking was just too many ideas. And it winds up sounding like a bunch of gibberish and then he has to leave. Gave him exactly what he asked for.

[00:26:02] Too many and they were all nightmares, too. And even he actually approached her regarding that, stating that he goes, Why am I getting all these nightmares and it's Morpheus throwing them in there? Makes you think if the Corinthian was involved with that. But I don't think so.

[00:26:18] This is after. So I don't think Corinthian was involved at all. Well, even Morpheus couldn't really help rescue Calliope. He couldn't free her. The only one who could free her was Richard. He had to be he had to willingly let her go.

[00:26:33] And so Calliope just says, Maybe you could inspire him, which is exactly what Morpheus did. You know, Richard says, Like I have no ideas without her. So Morpheus says, you know, if you want ideas, I'll give you them in multitude or something to that effect.

[00:26:51] And and he does and it drives him to insanity. Both these episodes can be summed up in like ideas can be dangerous and possibly also the cruelty that humans can commit to each other and to other beings as well with the kittens being drowned. Those poor kittens.

[00:27:13] I only have a couple of quotes regarding this particular episode or this story. And it's I love it from a rasma saying it straight to Calliope saying, writers are liars, my dear. Surely you realize that by now. I was going to bring up that that's a good line

[00:27:29] because that's exactly what Richard was like. He said he only needed her for one book, but he kept her for several years after that one book came out. Yep. I would say a decade. Last one I would have would be Calliope saying an artist praises the muse.

[00:27:45] He offers vows of service and devotion to the goddess, goddesses in exchange for divine inspiration. An artist does not hold a muse against her will, which unfortunately he does. And apparently Calliope was Homer's muse.

[00:28:00] So he got one of the best ones and he treated her like crap. Right? Yeah. Right. Wonder how I wonder how hard they're locked in a room. At first when I when the episode started and we were talking about this,

[00:28:14] I thought we were going to get a because I wasn't familiar with the whole story from the comic or anything. I thought it was going to be like a siren song or something like that, just the way that she was introduced.

[00:28:26] And I was like, oh, is she a mermaid? Is it a siren? And then I was like, oh, no, some of you. It's like, OK, didn't get a Greek myth. Yeah. Yeah. What was I going to say?

[00:28:37] I had something on the tip of my brain and now it's gone. So move along. Yeah. Well, I did like that they chose a Greek actress for she was really good. Calliope. Yeah. She was so yeah. Very good.

[00:28:53] I have a couple of quotes just from the first one. I'd like to see anyone, prophet God or king persuade a thousand cats to do anything at the same time. Agreed. Same here. And just the little snarky line that the crone of the fates says to Calliope that

[00:29:14] every little bit helps, as the old woman said when she pissed into the sea. I love that line. I'm glad you pulled that out. It's a good line. I didn't write it down, but the one line that just infuriated me

[00:29:27] is when Richard is at his book launch party with a bunch of elitist snobs sitting around talking about his book and saying when he is asked where he gets his, you know, he's talking about his book to some woman at the party.

[00:29:40] And he says, I consider myself to be a feminist author. Yes, where he gets his ideas from. And he says the women in my life and like, oh, reached through the screen and wow, the one you have. Yeah. I mean, he's not wrong.

[00:29:56] It is the woman in his life, the one he has changed or locked away in a bedroom. Now, how does he bring anybody home with that? Because you can hear her in the room. Means that he doesn't take any women home. It's only her that he lives with.

[00:30:12] He got no hotel rooms, therefore, I suppose. Long time to not bring anybody home. I wouldn't trust somebody like that. Any more quotes or notes or anything about the episode? Nothing else for me. All right. So let's move on to comic chat.

[00:30:30] Mark, what do you want to say about the comics? Nothing. Like I said, I wasn't prepared for this. I didn't know that one. Well, they really toned down how Richard treated Kaliope in the show. Really? She was raped over and over.

[00:30:51] And she now I don't want to tell you. He comes to him naked. Erasmus Fry keeps her naked in a dark room. And when he gives her to Richard, he just puts an old flimsy code on her.

[00:31:04] And most she's naked most of the time that she's in captivity. Yeah. And they they hinted at it because she was always in bed when they were talking. I think that was a not like a nod to it, like a hint.

[00:31:16] She was always lying on the bed. Yeah. I was wondering when I heard that they were going to have this episode, how they were going to do that, because literally the first thing that Richard does when he brings her home

[00:31:30] is to rape her and it's done over and over and it's very dark. They I mean, I compare this to how the Unity Kincaid storyline was handled and where I felt that one was a little glossed over to be a little too romanticized

[00:31:48] and too clean so that people wouldn't understand the ramifications of what happened to it. They actually did this much better. They, you know, he's he's talking to his manager on the phone and his manager keeps pressuring him about his deadline. I mean, at first,

[00:32:07] it seems like he actually tries to be a decent person. But his downfall is that he's a coward. You know, he won't be brave enough to just let her go and see where the chips where the chips fall.

[00:32:21] Instead, he he's listening to his manager harass him about how he's going to lose his his advance and he's going to lose his manager and everything. And he recalls what Erasmus Fry was saying to him about I find force most effective and you hear, you know,

[00:32:40] you hear the manager in one ear and Erasmus Fry in his other ear and all of a sudden he just clicks the phone off. It kind of goes to black and he goes Calliope. And the next thing you see he's at the computer furiously typing.

[00:32:59] There's a scratch on his face and his shirts a little unbuttoned and disheveled. So, you know that nothing good came of that. But it is not explicit. So I thought that was a good way of them to make it not explicit,

[00:33:14] but really show the kind of horrors that he is capable of. OK, yeah. Yeah. After the first time he's with her in the comic, he's telling himself he's he's telling himself she's not a human.

[00:33:27] I'm not a bad person and like he kind of has a problem with it. I mean, there's some graphic lines in the comic. So if this is something that bothers you by all means skip this issue. That's what I said. I probably not going to read it.

[00:33:40] Yeah. And then it says it occurred to him momentarily that the old man might have cheated him, given him a real girl that he, Rick Maddock, might possibly have done something wrong, even criminal. So because she's not a human, he thinks it's OK. It's it's OK.

[00:33:56] It's rationalizing your darkest moment or in human moment, I should say, on something. Yeah. But you know, even though she's not human, you don't it's not being respectful and anyway. Treat another being like that. So that was a big change. So the way you explained it.

[00:34:19] Also, Maddock was in the comic was a little more everywhere. It wasn't just books. He ended up kind of being like almost like the Lin-Manuel Miranda of the time. Like he was in everything. He was a poet. He was making him. He was directing a movie.

[00:34:34] He was doing all kinds of stuff like he was he was a really big deal. And I don't know that that really comes across. I think they make a little nod to it because they he's about to

[00:34:46] make a movie of his first book and he's like, well, who's he going to go with? And he said, you know, whichever studio allows him to write and direct it. And they they say even J Rowling doesn't have that kind of power.

[00:35:01] So I think they gave a little hint to that. And also in this one, I think we get to see more of the softening of Dream because he is a little more cold in the comic books. He he does free Calliope and he drives Richard to madness,

[00:35:17] which I think even goes a little bit darker. I think he doesn't start scratching his face and everything because in the scene he's like he's torn his fingers writing in blood because he has so many ideas coming out of his head.

[00:35:30] But in that one, he's like scratching at his face and trying to write into his skin and everything. So it does go a little bit darker. And in this, I believe Calliope tells Dream to release him from his punishment

[00:35:44] because she said, you know, she cannot forgive what he did, but she has to forgive the man for herself. And so Morpheus does release him from his madness where I believe he just goes mad in the comics.

[00:35:57] Yeah, he just he I mean, he's definitely tortured ripping out his nails. Like he's absolutely tortured. And then she asks him to be released, which I think is another thing that affects Dream and his long story.

[00:36:11] Like it's another key point in his story where he's like, OK, I can. You can still be mad, but you don't have to continue the punishment. Yeah. Yeah. And in this one, they do have a little bit of a tender moment too,

[00:36:24] where she comes up to him just as she's leaving and she says, perhaps someday I can come back to the dream and we can properly mourn our son. And he says, maybe that's not a good idea right now.

[00:36:36] Whereas I think in the comics, she just says, I would like to come visit you in the dreaming sometime and he says, I don't think that's a good idea. Correct. Yeah. I think they wanted to get a little more of the story and his back story into

[00:36:51] this show than. Yeah. I think they have a much softer relationship in this than it's revealed in the comics. I yeah, I agree. But I like it. I like the softer. It was definitely easier to watch than reading the comic.

[00:37:07] You know, I said it before, I'm like, I don't know why this is listed as a horror comic and then we hit some of this stuff and I'm like, oh, yeah, this is why. Yeah. And I think

[00:37:16] it goes along with the show that how the main story arc ended with a dream being a little more kind to his subjects and allowing Galt to become a dream instead of a nightmare in this one.

[00:37:29] He gives a little more resolution to Calliope and at least they are even able to talk about their son because that's the thing that divided them so sharply. Yeah. Yeah. If you're listening to Act Three of the audiobook picks up where this story

[00:37:46] drops off or it gives you the backstory right off the bat. Cool. So people don't want to wait for season two or three or whenever it comes around or season three. You'll probably listen to the audiobooks because I'm just finishing up part two

[00:37:59] Act Two right now and it's amazing. I think Act Two is my favorite. But yeah, Act Three, which I just started, gives you the story between Calliope and Dream and their son and what happened and how it affects the rest of the family.

[00:38:14] Yeah, I'm really interested if they move forward. Are they going to move this story earlier because they did give us Calliope? Or are they going to wait? They follow the timeline of the comics roughly. We will get some of his son's story in Act Two,

[00:38:32] yeah, as well as a bit of Joanna Constantine. Cool. You got more Constantine. I like that. Any more comic about Calliope? No, I thought this was a really good interpretation of it that was, you know, it appeals to a mass audience.

[00:38:51] It was not as horrific as the comic, but it still got the theme of the story across. And that's what would we do for fame and fortune? And how low would we go to get that kind of a gift?

[00:39:10] Yeah, I think gaming by being part of the production probably realized, hey, let's not make this so harsh like it was in the comic. Because you're appealing to a broader audience at this point. Now, mind you, it is more adult oriented,

[00:39:28] but this is something that, you know, teenagers and parents and everybody can watch pretty much I don't think you can let your little kid watch it. But it's something that could be of a talking matter in a household that that likes these kind of stories.

[00:39:43] So that's probably why they kind of approached the storytelling that way. I also feel like the show goes into how awful it is being trapped on several occasions. Like it goes over it a few times and for you didn't need to,

[00:39:58] you know, hammer the nail any further with the rape stuff. Like I don't think it was necessary. I think they've already the being trapped and the feeling trapped. However, it comes across. I think that's a theme that's run through the show and this continues it.

[00:40:12] And it was enough. Yeah. And this actually just popped into my brain. There's another podcast about Sandman called The Endless. And one of the hosts on it was actually a assistant editor to Sandman and worked with Neil and still has a relationship with Neil.

[00:40:29] And she gave a little bit of a back story on the writing of Calliope. And she said that Neil was actually working on another story that was a spinoff from one of his standalone issues that I don't want to bring up

[00:40:46] because I'm hoping they'll cover it in season two. But he was working on that story and it just was not coming together. And he was coming up against a deadline and it just popped into his head of what

[00:40:59] if, you know, a writer was able to capture amuse and force them to give him ideas and that's where the genesis of the story came from. Huh. Yeah. That's great how he was able to take that little seed and grow it into more

[00:41:19] storylines that will be coming down down the ways in the future. That's pretty cool. It's a nice little inside game that they got on that podcast. Yeah, it's called The Endless. If you want to take a listen to it, it's really good to lots of analysis.

[00:41:33] Dream of a thousand cats. I thought was basically straight out of the comic, which was awesome. I had spent a while since I've read it, so I can't think of anything that deviates from the story, but it's pretty much the story that was in the comics.

[00:41:46] Yeah, I mean, the images are very similar. They cleaned some of it up a little bit, you know, just to make it a little there's a little there's a rawness to the comic that seemed to be cleaned up

[00:41:57] for the show, in my opinion, just in the way the artwork is. But other than that, it was beautiful and straight out of the comic. I've got no if you let me and this is a standalone thing.

[00:42:08] If you just want to read that one issue of the comic, you can. It's exactly the story. That's awesome. It was just a delightful thing for me to watch. I just enjoyed getting to hear that story. All right. Anything else anybody's got?

[00:42:20] Are we moving on to listener feedback? Good. That's all I got. All right. We have feedback again. Thank you, everyone. Yay. From Facebook, first off, we'll start with Penny Lennox. My cat was really into Dream of a Thousand Cats.

[00:42:36] He got up from the couch, walked up to the TV, sat there, watching the episode closely, listening to everything seemingly with laser focus. He's shown fleeting interest in other TV shows before. For example, he loved Game of Thrones and would regularly get in front

[00:42:50] of the TV watching sword fights. But this was different. He watched almost the entire episode. I'm a little scared now. And then she followed it up with the frightened emoji and the covering of your eyes, emoji and a cat emoji and then laughing. You are not alone.

[00:43:07] There seem to be a lot of cats who are into this. And if we wake up tomorrow as cat nip Penny, we will know who to be blaming. That's pretty cool that the cat got really involved in that. I'm a little terrified. It's true.

[00:43:22] But you could show that they're attentive to that kind of thing. But they also see other cats too. So it's probably literally why the cat was like, I'm really into all the mess. I want to check that out.

[00:43:31] Good thing they didn't attack it or try to jump into the TV. I'm hoping my cat loves me enough that she's not going to eat me when I die. Well, thanks, Penny, for that. Well, next up we got Alma Contreras and she stays the beginning of the episode

[00:43:46] broken my heart poor Siamese cat. I'm getting all the sad emojis because that's what she put is sad emoji. Just thinking back on how her kittens were snatched and tossed in the water. Yeah, I feel the same. How cruel us humans can be crying emoji.

[00:44:04] I wanted more about the what the history was with Morpheus and Calliope. I just wanted to let y'all know that I was very grateful this podcast or else I would have been completely lost. I definitely enjoyed the series more with you guys and kissing emoji. Thank you.

[00:44:22] Thank you, Alma. We got a short and sweet comment from Banks Vargas saying amazing animation with I heart emojis, kitten paw emojis and party horn emoji. And there was another one. Someone named Laura asked if we accept feline feedback. And I think for this one we do.

[00:44:46] And what's your cat say meow meow hiss purr? That's from Tabitha. Tabitha says purr. Well, that purr was a little aggressive. But as it should be with this episode. And Jason's cat Ash replied paw paw paw scratch. Of course he would. And we got some voicemail from Mr.

[00:45:15] Steve Brown, so let's see what Mr. Steve Brown has to say. Hi, Mark and Jimmy. And that was it. Hi, Steve. Thank you for actually just saying hi like I asked. I thought it was going to be a long voice valid, I was like, nope. OK, thank you.

[00:45:34] I asked for a hi. I got a hi. Thank you. There you go. All right. For notes, we are still waiting on news about season two. We don't know if it'll be Netflix. We don't know if it'll be Amazon. We don't know if it'll be somewhere else.

[00:45:47] Neil has implied that there's going to be a season two. It's just a matter of when and where. So eagerly awaiting. Check out the comic, check out the audiobook, check out any number of Neil's work in the meantime. He's fantastic.

[00:46:00] Get the trade paper back if you haven't been reading. Check those out. Support your local comic artist, as I always like to say, of panels to pixels or your local bookstore, your local library. You can find this stuff, all kinds of places. Exactly.

[00:46:13] And, you know, my kid and I are still reading, fortunately, the milk one of his children. So he's got children stories, if those appeal to you. Yeah, I think he's got a lot of new fans since the Sandman has come out

[00:46:26] because from what I've heard from a lot of people, they didn't even know Sandman was a comic book. And now they've dove deep into Neil Gaiman's work since then. Oh, and anyone who watches Lock and Key, there is a crossover issue between Sandman and Lock and Key.

[00:46:41] If you didn't know, Lock and Key is also a comic book. I actually just got that one and haven't read it yet. Well, that about wraps things up for this episode and the season. Don't bother writing into us until next season starts.

[00:46:51] But if you want to see what other podcasts, podcasticas following, check us out on social media, facebook.com slash podcastica, Twitter at podcastica and Instagram at Housepad, Castica. And of course, podcastica.com. If you just want to see the list of the shows we're covering,

[00:47:05] if I mean, if you're watching it and you have questions or you want to talk about it with somebody, chances are we're covering it. So check the website, see what we're following. I'm behind on TV shows and podcasts. I'm behind podcast too as well as editing them too.

[00:47:21] I'm embarrassed to say I'm like two episodes, maybe three episodes now behind on The Walking Dead and Andorra. I haven't even started yet and this hurts my soul. I've seen the first two episodes of Andor, but I didn't watch Rogue One.

[00:47:35] So I don't quite know what I'm watching, but I'm assuming it will get there. Rogue One, I actually did enjoy. So I highly recommend it. A lot of people didn't like it. But really, I see even people who didn't like some of the newer

[00:47:48] Star Wars movies have liked Rogue One. But I've heard a lot of other people love the original Delibla, why are we getting the story? We've already gotten kind of the short version of it from people like, yeah,

[00:47:59] we sent a troop there to go down, do this. They all died. We knew Obi-Wan's story too and it was still great to watch it. Exactly. I enjoyed the characters in that and I thought it was done very well. Yeah. But yeah.

[00:48:12] If you don't want to watch it, don't watch it. I still have to catch up too on Andor as well, Lara, as well as the Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones. I am behind on that one too.

[00:48:24] Game of Thrones, I'm only a half episode behind so I've got that going for me. But I think all three of us can be found at least visiting other podcasts if you're going to miss our voice in the meantime. So if everybody wants to.

[00:48:36] There's a catalog of stuff that you could hear us on, especially Lara and Jamie. Jamie was on my podcast, Panels to Pixels. So you could check that out. We covered the first season of Invincible. So you could check that out.

[00:48:49] She was also on Adrenaline Cinema podcast, which I also have. And we covered a few, which we already mentioned. My favorite Jason Voorhees, the Goonies and what else? There was another one. They live. So you could check out those under.

[00:49:08] You can just find them under your podcast player of choice. Lara was on Panels to Pixels as well. We covered the crow. And I covered the Witcher with Steve. So it'll be a while before we're back on that.

[00:49:20] I think the Witcher season two or three is coming out in summer of next year. Yeah, but you could always listen to the previous episodes of Panels to Pixels with Lara and Steve when they cover the Witcher. That was fun to have them on.

[00:49:34] Mark and I keep threatening to do Jason X. So we're going to get that done eventually. We will get that done. It'll probably be by the end of the month when Halloween is over. But who cares? We'll still put it out. We'll get it done.

[00:49:45] And then I'm in talks with Damien for the Watch It in the 80s podcast to do Halloween three. Season of the Witch. Season of the Witch, the poor redheaded stepchild of the Halloween series. But I've seen it so many times and as the years have gone by.

[00:50:03] I liked that it was a standalone movie. I liked it as a standalone as well. I met the actors from that film and Atkins is a pretty cool person to talk to when you see Atkins. He loves that movie for some odd reason.

[00:50:18] The first time I watched it, I didn't like it. And then I fell into the, you know, everybody hates this movie thing. And then I went back and watched it. I was like, no, this is a pretty fun movie. Pretty interesting. It is an interesting concept.

[00:50:30] So yeah, so it's the poor redheaded stepchild of the Halloween franchise. Well, thank you guys for letting me pop in now and then for the Sam Man cast. I absolutely love this property and I loved the series.

[00:50:41] So I was so glad to be able to discuss it with some other people. No problem. Me too. I'm glad I was glad you were able to join us. This was a lot of fun. Yeah, season two when it happens, we'll all get together again.

[00:50:51] If we can just get a thousand of us together to dream of season two at the same time. Yes, it might happen. Yes, there you go. You hit it right on the nosey. So just need a few more listeners and we will get it. Yeah.

[00:51:06] Well, I would just like to state this to the listeners. Thank you for listening to us as we talked about this particular series. Like Jamie had stated before, we're still waiting on season two news and regarding when it's coming out. But it seems that Mr.

[00:51:21] Game and himself is very confident that he would be able to get another platform. It's just until that time and when we get that particular season two. So I'll type. Thank you everyone for listening. We had we had a blast making this end.

[00:51:36] We hope to be able to continue it soon. Hey, through the power of magic and wibbly wobbly, timey, whiny stuff, we are back with some Sandman updates and some. Listener feedback that came in just past the wire. So but we didn't post it yet.

[00:51:59] So Bert and TJ, you are getting your feedback read. Awesome. Right. First up, we'll go with Bert who sent an email and he says, dear Jamie and Mark, thanks for reviewing the TV series.

[00:52:12] I've enjoyed your podcast so far and I'm very curious to hear what you have to say about episode 11. Well, now you know. I haven't read the comics, but I've heard the two stories in this episode were smaller stories released in between the larger story arcs.

[00:52:25] Yes. And this kind of thing happens a bit with Sandman, which is kind of fun. Little stories get thrown in between big stories and they're usually a nice little little break. What did you guys think of the animated part?

[00:52:40] I was taken aback a little since it was a bit of a departure from the previous episodes. I did like the story, but I prefer the Calliope story better. Her story provides much more depth to Morpheus's character.

[00:52:52] And I thought it was a rather interesting way to do it. I do wonder about Arthur Danville's character and how he was translated from the comics to the screen. Was he as awful in the comics as the series or worse?

[00:53:04] I can only imagine being locked up in that room for so long and having to endure this creep of a guy. Overall, I love the episode and I hope there will be more one offs. Thanks for creating this awesome podcast and I'll be looking out for more.

[00:53:19] You're sincerely Bert. Thank you, Bert. That was a perfect email. You wrote that he was a little worried about some grammatical errors since English is not his first language, but perfect. You did not you did an absolutely perfect job.

[00:53:32] So don't know caveats next time you send an email. You did great. Yeah, you were perfect, Bert. Also, you could listen to the podcast. I'm sure you have if you're hearing us now. But I thought the animated part was done very well. And so did Lara.

[00:53:48] We all had a great time in watching it and viewing it. I wanted more from because we got David Tennant. Now that I remember the name because I didn't get it right the first time. But yeah, we got David Tennant in there and Michael Sheen too as well.

[00:54:06] And as well as Neil Gaiman himself that points out. I believe Georgia Tennant. And I can't think of Michael Sheen's wife's name off. Yeah, they were all very much a part of that with the voice acting. And I thought that was amazing.

[00:54:23] Plus the cool news that we got about David Tennant coming back in the in turn. Spoiler. Spoiler. Nobody hears a hoovian. Maybe they don't know. They're not who knows. But spoiler alert, yeah, Tennant is back as Doctor Who just for a short term. I'm so excited.

[00:54:46] He's still the best doctor. Yes, he's my favorite doctor that's out there. So yeah. And on top of that, we got some news for you. But next up, what's the next point of feedback that we have to Jamie? We got just a very short email.

[00:55:03] You didn't sign it. So I'm just going by your email from either TJ or Thomas Low just wrote, hey, you guys are great. So thank you very, very much. That was super sweet. Thank you for saying hi like I asked. Thank you very much. We think you're great.

[00:55:20] Awesome. And we thank you for all of you for listening to with that. We're going to move right along into the biggest news because we were talking about this when we were all uncertain what's going on. We talked about it on the podcast. But Jamie, what's the news?

[00:55:37] We got season two approved. Yeah. Yes, we do. So look forward to another Sandman cast when it comes out. So obviously it's back on Netflix. So so it's on Netflix for season two.

[00:55:53] We don't know we don't have an exact date, but it's already greenlit and it's a go. So we're looking forward to that. We could all look forward to Neil Gaiman's next venture that would be on Amazon Prime, which is. Good Omens 2. Yes.

[00:56:11] So I'm not sure what will happen with that particular podcast if Jamie and I will be on it or whoever will be on it for podcast. But I'm sure it will be on podcast. Yeah, it was Derek did Good Omens 1.

[00:56:27] Derek and his gang teamed up with podcastica for it. So I wouldn't be surprised if that TV podcast. TV podcast. Casted industries. Yes, like I listened to it. They did a fantastic job. I'm just blanking right now. So yeah, look, look. It would be awesome to join him.

[00:56:43] Maybe awesome to join him for one episode. Do they have a release date for that yet? I thought I saw something. Not sure. But yeah, I look forward to that coming up so we could get more David Tennant and more Michael Sheen.

[00:56:59] So and also, like I said before, thank you all for listening. And thanks for keeping up with my unworldliness about the comic book. Jamie's got the knowledge of the comic. I'm just the one that's here having fun watching the show.

[00:57:17] And I've been trying to keep up with the comic. So I will be reading more before the next season comes out. So check that out when that happens. But for the meantime, we will talk to you guys later. Have a great whatever you're doing today.

[00:57:34] And thank you all for listening and those who took the time out to rate and review us and write emails and leave Facebook comments. And it's been a great season and I can't wait to do season two and then season three. And how far they get for fun.

[00:57:53] We'll see, we'll see, we'll see what happens. All right. Well, pleasant dreams or unpleasant nightmares, everyone. Take care. Bye. Good night.