79: Angel S2E1 “Judgment”

[00:00:00] Insurance isn't one-size-fits-all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's Name Your Price tool for years. With the Name Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they show you options that fit your budget. Enough hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy. Or maybe you're just

[00:00:25] looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit Progressive.com and give the Name Your Price tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping, and find coverage that fits your life, on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.

[00:00:55] Hmm. She doesn't trust me. Why should she? You can't see everything. You're just a vampire like everyone else. That didn't come out right. I thought I was out of the tunnel. Sure you did. Because the

[00:01:23] tunnel is, you know, it's something we all... Are we talking a real tunnel or symbolic? Just give me that much. I saw the light at the end of the tunnel. And someday I might become human. The light was so bright,

[00:01:47] I thought I was already out. We all got a little cocky, didn't we? It's gonna be a long while until you work your way out. But I know you well enough to know you will,

[00:02:06] and I'll be with you until you do. What about your inevitable stardom?

[00:02:18] I'm not saying I won't have a day job. Welcome to Still Slaying, a Buffyverse podcast. I'm Penny.

[00:02:47] And I'm Becky. For this episode, we're going to be discussing Season 2, Episode 1 of Angel, titled Judgment, written by David Greenwald and Mearsmith, and directed by Michael Lang. This episode originally aired on September 26, 2000, to an audience of 3.9 million households. Some alternative titles and other languages for this

[00:03:12] episode were The Tribunal in German and The Trial in Hungarian. Very to the point. Yep. Not too creative, but that's okay, because I'm sure in the future we'll get some funny ones. Oh, for sure. They never fail to... They don't ever disappoint. No. So we're back after a hiatus where a bunch of the members of our Slay Squad were off having

[00:03:36] major life things happening to them. We had people moving, we had somebody have a baby, and I went on a bucket list trip to Kenya on safari, where understandably I did not have a lot of opportunity to be recording podcasts. So weird. I don't know how you didn't find the time to fit that in. I know, like in between elephants and giraffes, there just wasn't... There wasn't really

[00:04:03] great Wi-Fi in the national parks of Kenya. Actually, that's a lie. There was really good... I had really good service on my cell phone the whole time I was there. That's great. It was wild to me. Yeah, that's not common. So now that we're starting season two of Angel and season five of Buffy, there's a viewing order that we put up on the podcastdica.com website, it's in the show notes for every episode so you can follow along with us and not get lost going

[00:04:32] back and forth between the two seasons. I'm sure there will be a couple of movies and one-off episodes that we throw in there along the way. We'll keep you guys posted on that. I also wanted to put this out there. We've been talking about this among the Slay Group, Slay Squad Group, of the way that we handle spoilers on this podcast. We started off with really great intentions of not having spoilers in the main discussion, saving all spoiler

[00:04:59] conversations for The Watcher's Diaries. But I've noticed and so have a few listeners that we don't do great at that. And we often sort of drop little bits of spoilers here and there and then we're like, no, no, that's a spoiler. Save it for The Watcher's Diaries. So I want to put it out to the listeners to ask, would you want us to just go full spoilers, like mix it in to the main discussion

[00:05:24] or try harder to not have it in the main discussion? We want to hear from you because after all, you're our listeners, so it matters what you think. And just, you know, drop us a note, let us know what you think. I'll also put this question up on the Podcastica Facebook page and the Discord server so anybody can opine and let us know what they think about that going forward. Awesome.

[00:05:51] So let's get into it. Did you have a Y2K moment of the week this week? Mainly just the beepers. Me too, the beepers with the 911 code. Yes, I laughed every time. Well, the two times that they went off in the episode, I was like, oh, those were the days. Yeah, it was a simpler time when you weren't available all the time. And people could beep you

[00:06:18] if you had a pager. I never had one. And then you were limited what you could put in a pager. There was like a character limit. So all you could do was say like, call me or 911 or like, mom's at the hospital or like whatever it was that you needed someone to know right away. And people developed like codes with each other. Yeah. Yeah. Our biggest was boobs. It didn't mean anything. There was no reason to even respond.

[00:06:47] But once we learned that we could spell boobs with numbers, that's most of our pages that went through. That's all that was. That's really funny. I remember cell phones were around, but they were super expensive and only some people had them. And I knew a lot of people that had a pager and the system was that they would get paged and told to turn on their cell phones so someone could call them for an emergency

[00:07:11] conversation. Oh, okay. We just went to the pay phone or asked whatever establishment we were in if we could use their phone. Yeah. And pagers were big, big business for drug dealers. Oh yeah. That's pretty much. Nevermind. Yeah. That's how. I'm not going to tell on myself. Did I already just tell on myself? A little bit, but you know that the statute of limitations has run.

[00:07:36] So I was, I was very young. Yeah. I remember one time I was in this like food court ish area in Boston's Chinatown and the pay phone rang and I happened to be sitting like right next to it. And so I answered, I answered it, which looking back, I'm like, what a dumb thing to do. And this incredibly terrifying man like came up and grabbed it out of my hand. It was like, never answer my phone. And I was like,

[00:08:01] okay. And then I was like, oh, of course he's a drug dealer. And this is where he does his business. I'm imagining you answering the phone and it being like one of those like a drama mystery suspense, where it's like, you have 30 minutes to find this or everyone, you know, will be gone. That would have been a good movie.

[00:08:27] It probably is a movie. I was going to say, I feel like I didn't just come up with that on my own. I feel like I've seen that somewhere. Isn't there a movie where Colin Farrell spends the entire movie inside of a pay phone? Like one of those ones that's a booth. I have not seen that, but I would be very curious to see how they make an entire movie out of being inside of a phone booth. Yeah. Vague memory. I don't think I ever saw it. I just remember the

[00:08:52] previous. Greatest phone book movie related movie would be Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Yes. That is a classic. I also love Jumping Jack Flash when she's in a pay phone. And yeah, Whoopi Goldberg. She's in a pay phone. And then the phone rings back after she hangs up and they're like, put in another 25 cents. And she's like, find me in New York City for that 25 cents. And then the bad guys that take that opportunity, they attach a crane and they pick

[00:09:21] the pay phone booth up and drag her away in it. Yeah. And she's like, I've got all the quarters. You can have all my quarters. She's like panicking. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's another one I need to go back and watch. We had that movie on VHS when I was like a teenager. And so my family watched it like over and over. We had like six movies that we had VHS copies of.

[00:09:45] Trading Places, Jumping Jack Flash, Blues Brothers. I don't know. A handful of movies. And so we just watched those movies over and over and over and over again. We didn't have cable. We had to make our own fun. So let's get into this. Season two, episode one, set up episode. You know, we're back. It's been summer break, whatever. We don't know how long time, how much time has passed since all the events of the end of season one. Doesn't really matter. But we pick back up with the team. Where do you want to start our conversation?

[00:10:15] I kind of want to start with the heart of the episode. And that's Angel's progression through this episode. You know, you were talking about how much time has passed based on the whiteboard. I feel like a decent amount of time has passed because they've wrapped up a lot more demons that they're looking for or wrapping up cases and things like that.

[00:10:39] But I like the showing how they're doing better, even though Cordelia is very frustrated. They're working out of her apartment. But they're obviously making money, getting clients and doing a lot of good to help people. But it's like they kind of got too big for their britches. They got cocky. And then Angel, you know, Cordelia gets this vision and they get some bad intel. It's not solely,

[00:11:08] it's not his fault that he inadvertently kills someone just like him who was bad, is now good and trying to help somebody else. And then his struggle of dealing with the guilt, dealing with, he's so focused on, as he calls it in the episode, the light at the end of the tunnel, that he kind of, I think, loses track of what they're really, their purpose really is. And I like

[00:11:35] how we see him progress through the episode, working through all of that, and then coming back to remember why he does what he does, why the group does what they do, and how they all acknowledge, yeah, we got a little too cocky. Let's go back to the basics. And no matter what happens with his, with the prophecy, that they're all there for each other, I really liked that whole arc of the,

[00:12:01] this storyline, or this episode. It occurred to me when I was watching the episode again, after, so if I have time, I like to watch an episode three times. One time, straight through, no notes, just watch it. Then a second time where I pause a lot and take notes and make sound recordings and like, think about it deeply. And then a third quick viewing, where I just am like, did I miss anything? If I have time. Usually I only have time for two views. Yeah. If I had time

[00:12:31] for three. And on the third viewing, I realized that Wesley's dart scene is the foreshadowing of the whole Angel arc. Because we see Wesley in this bar, and he's all Mr. Suave, like hitting the dartboard exactly where he wants to. You know, there's like two dudes watching him like, oh no, we're not as cool as him. And there's a hot chick watching him like, yeah. And, and he's all like, sorry,

[00:12:58] lads gotta go. You know, I gotta, my boss is, you know, calling me and it's an emergency. I'm important. Right. I'm so important. Right. And then he does this, like, without looking at the dartboard shot of the dart, like super confident. And then you hear off screen, ow! And he's like, oops. And it's just classic Wesley. Classic. First of all, we can't let Wesley ever get too suave and cool. We have to

[00:13:23] remember that he is a little bit of a dork always. But also that being overconfident often leads to like careless mistakes. And that was one of the things that happened. Angel was super confident. Cordy was super confident. She's like, I got a vision. That's the guy. Go get him. Angel's like, I'm on it. I'm going to get him. We're going to put another like win on the board. And it all blows up in his face because they were all too confident. And it's this amazing learning thing. But I loved

[00:13:52] that it was all encapsulated in the, in the Wesley dart scene. Right. That's cool. I did. I didn't put that together. I like that. It took the third viewing. So. And also you could say the same with Cordelia too, because she's got her acting gig and she's actually doing a really good job. She's improvising and the director's like, I'm, I'm here for this. And then she gets the page and then she's walking out

[00:14:15] on something big and important to go do this, her other, her side gig, I guess you could call it at this point. Yeah, that's, I really, I didn't think of it. That's setting it up. I like that. Yeah. It made me really happy. I love the, the gym, the gym scene. That was pretty badass. Yeah. They stride in there so confidently. They brush past the like, Hey, you're not members like

[00:14:42] people. And the gym manager trailing them being like, you can't just come in here. And Angel's all like, Oh, we're thinking about joining, like, leave us alone. And then we get the classic, Hey, Angel's not showing up in the mirror bit, which is always fun. I never get tired of that. And then I love this, that he, he's like, I'll take care of it. And kicks through the mirror. And I'm like, Oh, instead of bursting through a window window or a door in this episode, we're going to burst through

[00:15:06] this mirror. They're changing up the, the Buffy verse regular tropes a little bit to have him burst in through a window, but a mirror, but I, I was so there for it. And then when they walk out, back out of the gym, we get one of those classic Buffy verse hero scenes where the hero is in front and the sidekicks are flanking him. It's always a triangle pattern. And they walk into camera and

[00:15:32] then past camera with the camera at a slightly low angle, making them all look like sort of larger than life. Once you notice that shot, you'll notice it happening over and over and over again in episodes of Buffy and Angel. It's like a real favorite establishing, like, this is our team. And they kick butt shot. It's, uh, it's very, uh, rousing. It's like, dun, dun, dun, dun, triumphant.

[00:15:58] One of my favorite lines came from that scene is the guy was like the gym manager, that guy has horns and Angel's just like, yeah, steroids aren't good for you. They're just gone. I'm like, that is, that was so, so bad ass. I forgot about that. Um, that whole scene. There's so much that I don't remember from some of Buffy, but mostly a lot of Angel because I think I've mentioned this before.

[00:16:24] I only watched that series through one time. So this is so much of this is like, oh yeah. There's a, an episode in season three where a gym plays a big role. And so when they first showed up in the gym, I was like, wait a minute, it's too early for this. I had completely forgotten about this little bit in the gym. So it was fun to, it was fun to see it and experience it again for the

[00:16:49] first time. Yeah, it was, it was cool. And it did also a great job of highlighting how confident, overconfident, not overconfident, they did a great job. They got the job done, but you could see it was building on why they got a little too far ahead of themselves, but also showing how over the course of last season and whatever time has passed, how they really are becoming a solid unit. And I

[00:17:17] love, loved it, loved that. And you can give me. The teamwork is perfect, right? They all know each other's abilities and they work really well together. That part they haven't gotten ahead of themselves on. No, not at all. When they're in Cordy's apartment and Dennis tosses the book,

[00:17:42] Dennis, a little overzealous and hits Wesley in the head was just another classic Wesley can't be cool moment, even though he eventually gets to it and figures out what's going on. But when Gunn showed up. Oh my God. All right. I have, I have the clip. I love you so much.

[00:18:07] Gunn! What was that? Something about a gun. What if it's a demon with a gun? Listen up, whoever you are, we're well armed and we know how to do battle. So if you know what's good for you... My name is Gunn, Angel Samson. Well, this is a little embarrassing. Please come in.

[00:18:36] Come in. Wesley, you've heard Angel talk about Gunn. He's a great guy with a really fly street tack. What's he fly? It's how they know you on the street, Darko. Gunn. It really lets them know you mean business. It's my name. Charles Gunn, two Ns. Oh Lord, will no one shut me up?

[00:19:00] Uh, I'm Wesley Windham Price and this is Cordelia Chase. It's nice to finally meet. I've seen you before. The tannin screen commercials. I saw you in bed. What? Oh, I can see this is none of my business. You too. Not just a moment. In the hospital. After Angel's building blue, he sent me there to keep an eye on you two. Right. I'm just messing with y'all. I was hoping for some demon fighting tonight,

[00:19:28] but I wound up with a delivery job instead. I love that scene so much. I love that he has such a sharp sense of humor that he's like, not going to let this opportunity to mess with these two go by. Like he's like, yeah, this is going to be fun. Oh, it was great. And when Wesley asked, what's he fly? Because for those who aren't close to mine or Penny's ages, uh, fly was the term back in

[00:19:57] the day for hip and cool. And it would make so much sense that Wesley would have absolutely no idea what that means. And I just, that moment, I laughed way harder than I probably should have at that just cheesy little joke, but man, great job casting on gun and bringing him into the fold. And I am so excited for future.

[00:20:21] And he is in the opening credits now. So he's a full time, full member of the cast. And that is exciting because I, I love this character. I think he's wonderful contrast. And also the Buffyverse needs some color for real. So desperately. Yeah. And not tropey color. No, not token color. We need like an actual real character that people can get to know and cheer for. And who has like flaws and

[00:20:50] strengths and a sense of humor. Like I love gun. He's also quite pretty. He is very nice to look at, but I liked how intuitive he is to how he gets angel. Like when they're in the Kamal's layer, finding, looking for Kamal's layer and you know, he can sense angels feeling pretty crappy for killing this guy. And he's like, I'm going to stay here for a minute. And he's like, you're going to stay and soak up all the guilt. And then he's gone. It's just, he's so matter

[00:21:17] of fact, but intuitive. And I just, the chemistry between that actor and David Boreanaz is on point. And he just, you know, there are people that filter in and out of both Buffy and the angel universes, and they don't always click or fit, but they did such a great job with this and the, and the new addition that we get in this episode. Yeah. So, well, let's talk about it. I was going to say,

[00:21:47] let's talk about Lauren because everyone knows I'm a huge Lord fan and I had forgotten that they opened the whole season. No context, Lauren's face. And he's a demon green red horns. So you're like, Oh, is this our new villain? You know, now we've seen the show, you know, more than once. So we know who Lauren is, but I kind of remember being like, Oh, this is our new villain. And then he starts singing

[00:22:13] and you're like a singing villain. Interesting. And that his song choices. I will survive is so great. I love it. And his voice is fantastic. His singing is fantastic. It also occurred to me, intellectual property lawyer, Penny, that having your actors sing songs saves you tons of money

[00:22:33] on music rights because licensing a song to perform is way cheaper than licensing of well-known recording of a song. So by introducing all of the singing that happened in this episode would have been dirt cheap compared to if they had licensed, you know, it was, um, a Sade song, a Pointer Sisters song, and this Gloria Gaynor song. I'm like, that would have cost a small fortune.

[00:23:01] Yeah. But this is so cheap to have the actors sing it and a Barry Manilow song. Of course, of course, Barry Manilow. That was so cute. He's like, I'm going to ask you a question and you need to answer honestly, or I'm not going to tell you what you want to know. Why did you pick Mandy? And he's like, it's pretty. First, he's like, I know all the words. And I'm like, okay, I get that. That's how I pick some karaoke songs is like, well, what song am I going to screw up the least?

[00:23:29] Do I know the best? But also it's pretty is really cute. Like here's this big lug of a dude who is, you know, suave and handsome and actiony. And he's like, Mandy is the song that he likes, which is just, it's not my favorite Manilow, I have to say, but, uh, I like that it's Angel's favorite Manilow song. Yeah. And Lauren cracked me up when you're talking about his intro and you're right. He's such a beautiful performer. And he was cracking me up though, when he was talking about

[00:23:57] his description of LA, you know, talking about the glitz and then just nonchalantly segues into people who suck your brains out through your face. I was like, yes, welcome Lauren. Welcome. Yep. And, and the way that it sets the tone for the whole episode and for the whole season, really, he, they use Lauren and this will come up again. They use him as a framing device. They have him

[00:24:22] open episodes with like a little, like couple sentences or a song that will set the tone for an episode. And it's a, it's a great narrative device. I really enjoy it. And the music is, is nice. It adds a lot of light to this show that can sometimes be pretty gloomy. Um, and Lauren, when he meets Angel and he's all like nice coat and like all that stuff is just,

[00:24:48] I don't know. I like it whenever anybody tries to interact with Angel, like he's a regular person and he, Angel always has this look on his face, like, wait, am I supposed to like this or not like this? I don't know what the rules are. He's so like taken, almost taken aback by like, I don't, I don't know what to do with this guy. And I love Lauren. Lauren is like flirting with everybody. That's exactly what I was getting ready to say. I love his little one liners, especially directed towards Angel. Tall, dark, and what was it?

[00:25:18] Brooding or something. I forgot what he said, but it just, it just brings so much. And then we get this new setting of Keritos where that comes to, I mean, it comes in, I don't know, spoiler, it comes and it goes throughout the, throughout the rest of the series. But, um, I love their disdain about being in a

[00:25:44] karaoke bar and the demon singing, sexual healing. Like you said, it just brought a lot of levity because this season is going to, it gets, I, if I remember it gets darker. So having Lauren, who is just every time he's on your screen, he just brightens up the place. And I can picture him all through the remainder of the series up until the end where he just is so every time he's,

[00:26:10] that's why I love him so much. Cause he is like a, like a little ray of sunshine in this very dark story. Yeah. And he often will bring something very unexpected to the conversation. And Keritos is the angel version of the bronze. Yeah. In Buffy, they have this location that they go to often to hang out, to talk about things, to meet up with people, to find people. And they hadn't

[00:26:39] really had that in angel before this season one. We've talked about a lot. Season one is very bare bones. You know, there's really only three main characters and a few guests. And then there's like this one like basement set that's kind of gloomy. And like, they literally blew that all up at the end of season one. And in season two, the world expands and Keritos is a big part of that. It's like another location that we get to spend time in. And it's a fun, it's a fun location. I love that

[00:27:06] we get this. We get just enough to know that no weapons are allowed in there. No violence is allowed in there. There's a metal detector thing at the door. There's a bouncer making sure no one brings in weapons. And, and then it's just this cast of wacko looking demons, which for me, a child of the seventies who loved the Mos Eisley spaceport cantina more than anything from the first

[00:27:32] star Wars movie. I'm like, Oh, it's just like Mos Eisley. Right. You feel like demon music. And you've got all these different creatures that all look different from each other. Like, Oh, Mos Eisley. Thank you. I needed that. Uh, that's, that's a balm on my Gen X heart. And the guys singing sexual healing, that demon. Oh my God. Oh yes. Yes. Yes. Bring it on, bring it on. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. And we also learned that

[00:27:59] Lauren reads people when they sing specifically that he needs you to sing in order to like give you some kind of like guidance or psychic advice or whatever it is that he does. That's, that's fantastic. I love that. Um, and he also gets to be a little prophetic. He says to angel something like, Oh, I can tell that you're feeling smooth and in the groove. Isn't that the thing that comes

[00:28:21] before a fall? Yeah. He's talking about his pride. Yeah. Uh, angel really had that coming. Um, just to make sure that we all got the themes of the episode. Yeah. Pride comes before a fall. Yep. We got it. Thank you. Thank you. I like Cordelia's little one line when angel singing and it's bad. It's, it's, I don't know if David Boreanaz can actually sing or if he was, I always find it

[00:28:49] hilarious watching people who can sing have to fake like they can't say. Oh yeah. And if he can sing and played that well that he can't sing well done, but Cordy's man, that man will do anything to save a life. It's pretty great. I don't know if he can sing or not. I can't remember if I've ever seen David Boreanaz like legitimately singing in any context. Do you know, he really did ride the

[00:29:17] horse in the tribunal? Yeah, that I believe. I didn't know that. I, uh, I didn't, I didn't know that, but that doesn't surprise me at all about him. That seems like the kind of thing he would be good at. Cause he's very athletic in real life. Yes. And we are hitting peak David Boreanaz hotness years. I mean, it's like in Buffy, he was a little too, I don't know. He was just

[00:29:42] scrawnier, I guess, younger, scrawnier. And now we're hitting like that. He's at that prime age where his physique is like flawless. His face is flawless. I mean, David Boreanaz is still smoking hot today, but I like it angel. These next few seasons is like peak David Boreanaz. Yeah. He is,

[00:30:04] uh, unarguably a very, very good looking individual and I will never, never be sad to see him on my screen. Let's talk real briefly about, uh, Darla and Wolfman Hart. We just get one quick scene with Darla, Lila and Lindsay enough so that we know they remind us that Darla is what they brought

[00:30:29] back in the box at the end of season one and that she is hanging out with the Wolfman Hart crew. Um, we also get to see Lindsay hilariously struggling with his prosthetic hand. And I don't like to make fun of people who have disabilities unless they are Lindsay. Right. In which case he has, he earned, he earned that poke. I will say though, for anyone who has ever tried to open a CD case with two good

[00:30:59] hands, it is not easy. No, I don't miss those. No. Those jewel cases, especially when it's a brand new CD and it's like, that thing has a grip. They put that, like that piece of tape or that, that glue sticker or whatever, trying to get that off. It's like, geez. And do you remember they had to sell special tools to open the plastic wrap because it was so

[00:31:24] tightly wrapped around the CD jewel case? It's like almost like a letter opener kind of. Yeah. Ridiculous. Looking back on that is really funny because now it's like people just throw their CDs away. Yeah. They don't know what they got. Um, I still have all of mine. I do too. That big, you know, that carrying case that you slide. Oh yeah. The big binder. I still have that. It's

[00:31:48] still sits in my car. And even though I don't, I'm all Spotify playlist now, but I still have them. I don't have, I don't have the capability to play CDs in my car, but I do have a CD player in the house and there are things that I've never put on my iPod or now my iPhone and, and things that are not available on streaming services because they're like local bands and stuff. And so I do, I do still

[00:32:18] sometimes play CDs. Um, but people always remark on it when they catch me doing it. They're like, Whoa, what year is it? Like, Oh, come on, man. But that long ago, I was like, this is a local band. They're not on Spotify. These were my high school friends and they made a CD and I just wanted to hear it. Yes. So funny. But, um, I have a, like a little bit of a pet peeve whenever they like to show that

[00:32:48] somebody is like, not of this time and sort of erudite or special, then they have to like classical music and be sort of snotty about it. And then the conversation about classical music always has weird emphases that I don't think makes sense when she's like, Oh, the prelude. And then Lindsay like closes his eyes and goes in C minor. Like that's the thing to remember about that piece of music.

[00:33:15] Right. And it, I, it didn't add anything. The only thing I think I will say that it did do is show how good Lindsay is at being Lindsay and how well he can adapt to knowing what, whoever he is in

[00:33:38] charge of or working for, or trying to defend whatever, how good he is at managing them or helping them or whatever it is. Cause you look, you notice the difference when Lila came in and she's instantly talking down to Darla. Oh yeah. Like she's like, yeah, he's like, she's 400 years old. She's not a baby and he, but he knows how to reach her. Yes. It was very cheesy how they chose to reach

[00:34:06] her, but I think Darla's one line. I'd love to see that boy. Oh yeah. Hey, I love you. I love you too. Hello, Darla. How are you doing today? You feeling any better? It's a beautiful day.

[00:34:23] Darla, shut up. She's not a child. She's 400 years old. And the prelude. In C minor. The preludes and the

[00:34:44] nocturnes. So much better than the waltzes. He had consumption. And died way too soon. A lot of that going around. Chopin. Angel. He's here in town. You can feel him. Always good. He hasn't been much

[00:35:11] of a help to us. He killed me. I remember now with a soul in his heart. He's taken from both of us. So when you feel ready, we'll start thinking about giving a little back. Angel. It's been a long time.

[00:35:41] I'd love to see that boy. Oh, that's so good. Love Julie Benz in this role. The way that she plays Darla, she flips between being like sort of a take charge, like powerful girl boss type to this like breathy,

[00:36:10] nostalgic, sexy character. And her looks are so delicate and feminine that both personas work really well together. I love her in this role. Yeah, same. I think she's really underrated. When she showed up later in Dexter, I was like, oh, Julie Benz. And I remember so many of my friends were like, what are you talking about? We don't know who this person is. Yeah. I was like, oh,

[00:36:40] I know who she is. She's awesome. And man, just wait. Yeah. Her arc on Dexter, it starts off real slow and then ends real big. Yes. But I love that the scene immediately before this, we see Lila, you know, like lawyering it up, like walking with purpose through this like crowded hallway and like having this like, yeah, look at the contract and we'll talk on Monday, blah, blah, blah, like all

[00:37:08] business. And then immediately she's like trying to connect with Darla. And you could tell like she has no nurturing qualities whatsoever. And so she's like putting on this fake kind of character. I've been around so many people who talk to children this way where they'll like be like, hi, honey. Oh, you look so cute in your dress. And kids read it immediately and are like, get away from me. You creep. Like, uh, you're being fake with me. I don't like it. And the same thing,

[00:37:37] Darla kind of looks at Lila, like, like, like what? I also, I also think that Lila doesn't really know how to deal with other strong women. Like usually, and I imagine in her law firm, based on what we've seen, there aren't a lot of powerful women on her level that she's normally rolling with the

[00:38:02] boys club. So I think that was a big reason why she did not know how to relate to Darla because she doesn't, she's not very good at dealing with other strong women. Her only modes seem to be overpower you, outsmart you, or I'm so sexy. You can't resist me. Yeah. And none of those are

[00:38:28] going to work on Darla. Well, arguably, maybe Darla would go for her sexually at some point, but like, you're right. She doesn't know how to deal with other powerful women and she doesn't ever interact with other, we don't see her having friends. She only has rivals. Yep. That's it. Um, I, I just want to

[00:38:51] repeat my earlier observation about Lila that like, there's a part of me that wants to be with her. I love her. Oh yeah. Her wits. Her one. She's so sexy and powerful and, and chic and badass, but also deeply, deeply, deeply sad. I'm just drawn to it. Well, I now know what to look for when scouting out

[00:39:19] a romantic partner for Penny. Everyone send in your resumes. My instincts have not served me well. Oh my God. It's amazing. Uh, so let's talk about, um, the sort of main conflict of the episode. This, this poor pregnant woman who, um, I think she was a main character on Six Feet Under. She was, she was, um,

[00:39:51] Rico's wife. And she also was in the, uh, One Day at a Time reboot. Oh, that's right. I forgot about her. I hated the tribunal. Yeah. I mean, the whole concept of like, they'll just pop up anywhere and then decide life or death for this poor pregnant woman and her baby is, um, terrifying. It made me think, and then just sort of, uh, coincidentally, I have been watching

[00:40:20] some old Game of Thrones episodes and there was one of the episodes where Tyrion chooses trial by combat. And I was like, trial by combat is so dumb. What a dumb way to figure out like right or wrong truth or, truth or fiction, you know, like who's a, who can fight another person and defeat them. Right. And in the Game of Thrones universe, they keep saying it's like the gods decide who wins and that's how we know who's right or wrong. All right. But I was like, was trial by combat ever really a

[00:40:48] thing or is it just fictional? So I looked it up in Wikipedia. There was a huge long page, which I link, I will link in the show notes, but historically trial by combat really did happen a lot in medieval times. It was a pretty common method in Germanic law to settle cases when there weren't witnesses or a confession when they were like, we don't have any evidence to go on. So fight and we'll figure it out from that. Um, and it happened throughout Europe during the middle ages

[00:41:13] a lot. But what surprised me was that in the U S it has never been formally abolished in the U S it's technically possibly still legal to have a trial by combat in the United States. And a few people have tried it. So in 1983, there was a case in Delaware, McNatt versus Richards, where a defendant requested trial

[00:41:37] by combat to the death. And it was rejected on the grounds that dueling is illegal. So duel, a duel is illegal, but not technically a trial by combat. There's an ABA journal, um, article written in 1985 called forgotten trial techniques, the wager of battle, which is sort of like a cheeky, like joking article about whether or not you could have a trial by combat. There was a motion in a 2015, uh, case

[00:42:05] for combat in response to a civil suit that was rejected. And then in 2020, a man named David Zachary Ostrom requested a trial by combat in response to a custody and property dispute with his ex-wife over their children. Following his request, the court ordered him to have a sanity test and he was temporarily restricted from parenting rights upon successfully clearing his sanity test. Ostrom's parenting time was restored. And he has since admitted that he initially made the request

[00:42:34] trial by combat in order to attract media attention to his case. That was 2020. Good Lord. And in 2021, at the January 6th rally, Rudy Giuliani made claims of voter fraud and called for a trial by combat. I remember that. Yeah. So it's, I don't know, it's still possible that somebody could ask for one and it'd be granted

[00:42:58] in the U S which blows my mind. Uh, I obviously don't think it's a good idea because like, it just means whoever's like the better fighter or has a weird stroke of luck wins. That's not justice. Right. That does not mean they were right or no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. No, um, not a fan of the concept. It's great for drama in a narrative context. It was,

[00:43:23] you know, very dramatic in those game of Thrones scenes when there's trial by combat. Cause everybody's on the edge of their seat. You get a big flashy fight scene, like lots of fun and drama, but like in the real world, I think it has no place, but I think it's funny that it's still technically not illegal in the U S yeah. And this did make for some good action. I liked the, I just, it didn't, I could not rationalize why this random trio of people who I'm assuming were men

[00:43:54] just randomly pop up and decide that this very important baby will one day be this very important who will be, who will be very important one day. Baby gets to live or die. Um, why there was just no, no rhyme or reason to why that made sense, but it did give us, like you said, it does make for some good drama and some good action.

[00:44:25] And I loved Angel popping up just when she thinks she's about to perish and he tosses, the talisman and fights the guy you think he's lost. And then he just rises up, beheads the guy and they're like, Oh, okay, cool. Your kid is safe until 18. Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah. And she's like, Oh, thanks for coming through for me. Like, that's nice. And then I don't know,

[00:44:55] I guess she goes off and lives her life. Um, I guess the baby is healthy. Yeah. Cause we know we did, we never hear them or the tribunal ever again. So weird. And speaking of like ridiculous, outdated modes of determining something jousting is the dumbest sport. Like get on your,

[00:45:18] your horse and like ride, like play chicken basically with another person on a horse with a long stick. I don't, it's so dumb. I, it makes sense to me because it undoubtedly was most likely if I had to guess thought up by some man with a tiny penis who was looking for a way to, to compensate before

[00:45:43] Hummers were invented and he could drive a Hummer, uh, sorry to any Hummers of drivers out there. I don't mean to offend you. Um, I just have every Hummer driver I've ever known is that guy. Uh, and he's like, Ooh, what way can I make myself look bigger and better? And that's come up with this giant pointy long stick that he is missing in his life and poke it at people and defeat them.

[00:46:12] Yeah. In front of an audience for cheers and yes. And yeah. And drama. I do enjoy, I did enjoy Angel being like nice horse. Don't make me look stupid. Yeah. It's good levity. I feel like I would have said something similar. Yeah. I enjoyed that. And I do, I did enjoy the sort of dramatic timing of like, you think she's lost and then Angel pops up and, and just like mercs that guy from behind. Like, yeah, that's fun and dramatic. It reminds me of the episode last season where

[00:46:43] he tosses the ax up in the air and then catches it and kills the, yes, that, that scene that beheading this time made me think of that. I was like, I love it when they give Angel those really super cool executions, so to speak. Yeah. I enjoy the suaveness of it. Um, and I also enjoy the, like that they always give Angel a little bit of dorkiness too. Right after he's been suave,

[00:47:11] he gets to be like, ow. Yeah. Like he's, he's like, no, I'm okay. I'll be fine. Um, it's pretty funny. And then he goes back to the, to the Cordelia's apartment and he like takes down the whiteboard and he's like, you know, and they have this whole scene. Wait, I have it here. Good idea. Start over with a fresh slate. Actually, we're starting over with no slate.

[00:47:34] Of course we shouldn't be keeping score. We're not running a race. We're doing a job one soul at a time. I agree that keeping score isn't the best thing, but I do think there's nothing wrong with keeping track. I agree. Like record keeping and having a list of open cases. And especially if they're trying to figure out what Wolfman Hart brought in the box,

[00:48:03] like a list of possibilities that they're all working on. All of those things make sense to me. Angel being like, we don't need a slate at all. I'm like, uh, overkill. You kind of do. But I, I think, cause I think in, if I'm not mistaken in future episodes, we'll see them go have files. They reference for past cases and things like that. So,

[00:48:24] but for this episode, it was more, not really, uh, administrative thing. It was more to just hammer home the point that they had gotten cocky over confident and Angel had lost the point of him doing what he's doing. Cause he's just trying to fulfill this prophecy rather than just being out

[00:48:48] there helping people for his, the missions rather than the results. So it's cheesy and I agree. They need some kind of record keeping, which I do believe they'll, they do get to, but I, it, I understood it that whiteboard meant a whole lot more than that for this episode. It set the tone. I just was like, but you could still keep track. Okay. Whatever. Um, I, uh, it,

[00:49:13] I also was thinking a lot about Angel's curse and the way the curse works and how pleased with themselves. They all were at the end of the gym encounter at the beginning of the episode. And they were just all like clicking on every level and like getting the job done. And like at one point Cordy's like, we set them up, we knock them down. And I was like, if Angel gets too confident and happy with the way things are going, he could lose his soul. Like it doesn't have to be

[00:49:40] romantic love that makes them happy. It could be like, look at how well we're doing. Look at my team. Like we kick butt happiness that could lead to losing his soul. It is better for him to be more focused on the moment right in front of him and on the process and not the results. Yeah. That's a good point. I never, I always, always link it to romantic. Like when he says,

[00:50:03] what is it? Three things I don't do. I don't tan, I don't date and, um, sing. Yeah. Except you do sing. Just not badly, but Hey, I love me some karaoke. So I, I do love karaoke. I am not a great singer, but I am an enthusiastic one. And that is the number one requirement for

[00:50:29] karaoke. Yes. Get up there and have fun. It's not, no, that's why karaoke was invented is so people who don't have a natural singing talent can still get up and behind a mic and have a good time. So. Yeah. If you're not having fun doing karaoke, you're, you're doing it wrong.

[00:50:49] Yeah. You're too serious. Go move to Nashville and try to get you a record contract. Yeah. And get some humbleness. Um, one thing we haven't talked about is Merle, another new character that we are introduced to at, in this episode, he is the stool pigeon,

[00:51:13] gives Cordelia a chance to like drop some classic film noir talk about like, what is it? We, we hit him with the chin music until he sings like a canary. Yeah. Like just ridiculous tropey film noir things to say. Um, I enjoyed that. I enjoyed everything about Merle. I felt like this character

[00:51:34] was so lived in, like I immediately felt like this is a real person. He was twitchy. He was like greedy. He wanted more money to give the information. And then later we find out he was like holding back something and, and he was like sort of weaselly, but like in an entertaining way. I don't know. I just enjoyed Merle. Yeah, very much. He, he really fits the Buffy verse.

[00:52:02] Demon. Cause doesn't, doesn't he come back? Yeah, we're going to say. Okay. I thought so. Uh, he really, he fits that dynamic of this show so well that he is that slimy, but helpful when pushed kind of guy. I, I agree with you.

[00:52:27] I can't really trust him. But you have to sometimes. I don't know. You love to, you kind of love to hate him. He, he ends up being, he reminds me of the guy who becomes very important in the, these later seasons of Buffy. Yeah. Oh, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. Um, it also further builds out this concept

[00:52:53] of Los Angeles having this vast underground society of different kinds of demons who all have different personalities and worldviews and purposes in life and ways of living. And as does Caritas, like, oh, it's a demon hangout. This is where demons go to like, have a drink and hang out. Like, I love the demon underworld world building in this show. It's really fun. I do too. I do want to

[00:53:22] talk about Cordelia's pep talk. I loved her pep talk to Angel and it just added, I talked a little bit about it earlier, but how this group is gelling so well. And I think we, I've always loved Cordy and Angel, even in season one when they were finding their footing with each other, but this was just,

[00:53:48] it was so heartwarming. Yeah. I loved when she was like, uh, help me out here. Is this a actual tunnel or a symbol? Yeah. Like she's well, she's like full steam ahead on the pep talk. And then she's like, wait, timeout real tunnel. It was so funny. She was, she was fully supportive even when she didn't completely understand what Angel was going through. And that was so adorable.

[00:54:12] I love it. She's like, whatever, whatever comes or the rest is up to you. That was sorry. That was Lauren. But when she's like, I'll be with you every step of the way. Yeah. And he's like, what about your international stardom? She's like, I'll have a day job. It's fine. Right. Yeah. She's like, Oh, I'm not giving that up. Don't worry about that. Yeah, no, no. I'm still going to be a huge star. Like no doubt about that. And then we have our final surprise scene, which they did a

[00:54:39] beautiful job of not giving away until it happened. And I remember watching this live and being like, Faith, like so excited to see Faith. I love her. For somebody who's been in prison for several months, she looks really good. Her curly hair, whatever they did there was unbelievable. She looked amazing. And I know that we're supposed to believe that she just got beat up that day. But like, she looked fine. I know slayers heal fast. I was going to say, I just kind of wrote that off as

[00:55:08] she's a slayer. So she heals faster. But she didn't kill him. She didn't kill the girl or the guards. Yeah. She's like, I wanted to, but I didn't do it. I love that Angel has someone he can talk to about the dark parts of himself. And that Faith has someone she could talk to about the dark parts of herself. I assume she has some kind of therapy in prison, but like, she probably can't be like, so I'm the slayer. Right. And like, she can't fully share with people in prison. But with Angel,

[00:55:37] there are no barriers between them other than the, you know, the physical prison barrier. But like, they can fully share their darknesses with each other because they know that the other person has it too. Yes. And that they're on similar missions or similar rocky roads to redemption right now. And he never gives up on her. And that when we've all, I mean, none of us are slayers or that we know

[00:56:05] of are slayers or, you know, have that kind of violent tendency that Faith has. But, you know, when there's somebody in your corner who supports you, all of you, and sees that there is good inside of you, even when you're going a little crazy, it's just so refreshing. And I'm so glad that

[00:56:31] as much hate and vitriol as Buffy and her gang, rightfully so, Faith earned everything she got. And we'll get, you know, but it's just nice to see, like you said, those two have so much in common. They have each other and that she sees that there is somebody here who sees all of her and is not

[00:56:57] going to run away. Yeah. And I think about this a lot, that people who have done horrible things in their life deserve to have a chance to be redeemed and they deserve to meet people and find people who will help them on that journey or believe in them or support them. It doesn't have to be the people they hurt though. I think there's a, a sort of pressure sometimes on the victims of abuse to be

[00:57:24] like, to forgive and, and welcome the person back into their life. And I don't think that's fair to those people. I think if you've been abused, you're allowed to be like, never talk to me again. That doesn't mean that the person doesn't deserve redemption and doesn't deserve to have people believe in them. It just doesn't have to be the victims. Like, I think it would be completely unreasonable for anyone to expect Buffy to be visiting Faith in prison. Right.

[00:57:51] But Angel is completely logical and makes sense. It does. Because he wasn't hurt by her the same way that Buffy was. And he can take a step back and have some perspective on it. Whereas the people she directly hurt just shouldn't have to. No. And shouldn't be expected to. I feel like there's, there's a certain contingent of people who would be like, Buffy, be the bigger person. Faith is trying

[00:58:16] to be better. Like, no. And Buffy did try. No. She did try numerous times to be the bigger person and give Faith the benefit of the doubt. But Faith just basically spat on her. So. Yeah. Over and over and over again. Like, Buffy does not owe her anything. No, no, no, no, no. It's very different from some of the stories of Buffy's close friends that do end up hurting people and her giving them the benefit of the doubt and repairing that relationship. It's very different with Faith. Yeah. Like,

[00:58:46] Faith didn't just accidentally hurt Buffy in the course of doing bad things. She went for the worst hurt she could over and over again. And was very successful. Yeah. She really hurt her. And she, yeah. Like, if they at any point show Buffy, like, going to visit Faith in prison, I'll be like, that's not true. I don't like it. Cut it out of the episode. Like, I would be really mad about that.

[00:59:11] Yeah. They resolve it well. Eventually. But I, I'm glad. I agree. Wholeheartedly agree with you, Angel. And Angel showing up makes perfect sense. And he didn't do it with Cordy. Nobody knows that that's where he's going or what he's doing there. Well, it's well executed storyline. Yeah. I really like it. And it was such a great surprise at the end of this episode where we start

[00:59:38] season two. Yeah. Like just a little gift for the viewers who are all like, just hungry for more Faith content at all times. We're like, Faith! Just a little celebration. And she's right. She looks amazing. I'm so sad that Eliza Dushku is not still acting, but I'm very happy for her that she has found a whole new life. Yeah. She's killing it. She is killing it. Shall we move on to some pop

[01:00:02] culture references? Let's do it. So Lindsay mentions that Darla likes the composers Frederick Chopin and Johannes Brahms, but doesn't like quote unquote the Russians. I don't know if that has any significance. I don't know what that means. It's very cute though. Cordelia says that she's been watching a festival of noir films on the Bravo network. This was before Bravo became the network

[01:00:29] of Real Housewives. Yep. Which I bought into for a very long time, but then I was like, I can't with these people anymore. So I have since moved on. After singing I'm So Excited, the host jokes about the demon giving the Pointer Sisters, who are the song's original performers, a run for their money. Which he did not. The Pointer Sisters are un-

[01:00:52] Yep. I don't know who this is about. This trivia makes no sense to me. It's Jo. Who's Jo? Jo is the pregnant lady. That was her name. Oh, okay. So Jo says she used to work the register at a Costco retail store, which is funny. I don't think I was aware of the existence of Costco in the year 2000. I was not either. I knew we had Sam's

[01:01:16] Club because my mom used to, when I moved out of her house for the first time, she would show up on the reg with like Sam's Club boxes of like Hot Pockets and stuff for us to keep in our freezer because we were young and broke all the time. But I don't remember Costco. I think Costco had not gone national yet. I think it was still a West Coast thing. We had BJ's.

[01:01:44] Yeah, I bet you did. Yeah, we had BJ's. And I remember my mom used to get gas there and it was way cheaper to get gas at BJ's. Yeah, BJ's. Just know Penny completely ignored my joke there. I heard that. Yeah, as I was saying, you ignored it. Yeah. Fair. Oh, Lord implies that Angel is a little Kurt like the actor Kurt Jergens' role in the film

[01:02:07] The Enemy Below from 1957. Is that where that slogan came from? I don't know. I love that if it is. I haven't either, but I love finding origins of slangs. Yeah, that's true. I do love that. Sayings. While visiting Faith, Angel confesses that he sang Barry Manilow. She asks if it was Copacabana, one of Manilow's biggest hits, but he admits that it was Mandy. Because it's pretty. Shout out to our friend Mandy, by the way. Yeah, hey girl.

[01:02:37] Moving on to some trivia. So the guest star, Elijah Dushku, is credited in the closing credits of this episode instead of the opening ones. Although the closing credits cast listings are never, or sorry, start that over. Although closing credits cast listings are usually reserved for co-stars, Dushku was placed here to keep Angel's visit to the prison a surprise for the viewers.

[01:03:01] The same trick is used as well with Anthony Stewart's head's return in the Buffy episode, Two to Go. I remember that. I'm glad they did that, because that would have ruined the surprise. It was nice. It really would have been. And I would have spent the entire episode being like, when is Faith coming? Yeah, I would have taken away from everything. Instead of watching it. But, yeah. The end credits feature outtakes from Angel's performance of Mandy, and a voiceover from David Boreanaz saying, Thank you very much. Impersonating Elvis.

[01:03:29] This is the third and last time in the Buffyverse that a scene is played as the credits roll. A format previously used in the episodes The Puppet Show and She. Both episodes I do not like. Oh, no. No. She I like. I always get she mixed up with the one where the actress wants to be, become a vampire to preserve her. Oh, yeah. But, yeah. And The Puppet Show is just weird. It's, is that, that hasn't happened yet, right?

[01:03:59] We didn't cover it. It's in season one. It's one of the ones we skipped. Oh, okay. I'm thinking of, and you can cut this out. Oh, you're thinking of, I know which one you're thinking of. Yes, and if I am not on that episode, I don't care what is happening in my life. I will stop to cover that because that is my favorite. I freaking love that episode. Anyway. Keith Campbell, who plays the club manager in this episode, also portrayed Oz under his werewolf form in the episode phases. I did not know that. Are they talking about Lauren?

[01:04:30] No, the guy at the gym who was like, hey, you can't go back there. Oh, okay. I just heard club manager and I was like, wait, that's Lauren. I get it now. Got it. Caritas, which is the name of Lauren's club, is not Latin for mercy, but for charity or love. It's a good name. Which is very suitable. Yeah. Caritas. Huh. Now I kind of want to use that word for something.

[01:04:58] We'll work it in to a conversation at some point, I guarantee it. We'll figure it out. Yeah. All right. It's time for the question. Does it still slay? It's a yay for me. I definitely think it still slays. The only part that was annoying to me that we discussed was the tribunal itself, but it still brought a lot of good action drama and character building. Love the new introductions that we get.

[01:05:27] And so much goodness is coming. I wholeheartedly think this still slays. I agree. This is a very slay episode with, you know, it sets up season two beautifully. It gives us just enough action and character development for an episode. I'm all in. Same. So slay slay. We have just a little bit of news. It's not about the Buffyverse exactly, but it is about Sinners, which we covered earlier this year.

[01:05:57] And the fact that there are going to be Sinners haunted houses at the Halloween Horror Nights at Universal Studios in both Orlando and Hollywood. I've never been to the Universal Studios haunted houses. I've heard about them for years. They go way over the top with attention to detail. People rave about them. So I'm pretty tempted to try to take a trip to either Florida or California this fall to go to these.

[01:06:26] They'll be opening August 28th in Orlando and September 3rd in Los Angeles. It's going to be a recreation of Club Juke. So you could go to Club Juke, which looked like the coolest party that ever was, and dance to blues music and then maybe fend off vampires. I don't know exactly what's going to happen, but like awesome. It sounds like so much fun.

[01:06:48] And I have no doubt that some of the stars of the show will probably end up popping up at at least one of these nights. Probably at like the opening, there'll be a big party and they'll have like, you know, some of the bigger stars there. And then I've always heard that like tons of celebrities go to these haunted houses. Like people who've been to them are always like, oh, yeah, I saw so-and-so there. I believe it.

[01:07:16] And a Sinners one is going to be amazing. I was joking with whoever I was texting with about this and I was like, I hope Ryan Coogler's making bank on this deal. He better be. I hope that his production company is getting like just tons of money from Universal Studios for doing this. He better be. We did not get any viewer feedback this week. So that means that we can skip right to the end of the main section of the podcast.

[01:07:43] And remember to stay tuned for The Watcher's Diaries if you want to hear the spoilery discussion. Also remember to tell us whether or not you think we should keep that section or integrate our spoiler talk with the rest of the discussion. And if you'd like to join the conversation, you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com and in the show notes for each episode. Also at podcastica.com, you'll find links to our social media pages and all our other shows.

[01:08:10] So I am going to be guesting on Run For Your Lives this week. We are covering Ready or Not 2, Here I Come, which starred our own Sarah Michelle Geller, among other wonderful actors. So I am endorsing Run For Your Lives. They just dropped an episode about the movie 28 Years Later, which movie I love. And I'm about 75% of the way through their episode coverage and it's great. They're so good. I love Peyton and love Daphne and I love them together. They're so good.

[01:08:40] They're really great. What are you guys up to on what's on tonight? We are in the process of getting ready for the second annual Pitt Awards episode. We have Justin Wade, who played Brave and Warm Guy in season one, and our friend Ellen, who are going to join us for the Pitt Awards. So for everyone who watched the Pitt, please keep an eye on the what's on tonight pages to vote for your favorites.

[01:09:08] And favorites, we'll have a fun list of stuff to put together for that. And then we are also looking at covering, doing a one episode coverage of the entire season of Apple TV show, Margo's Got Money Troubles. Nice. I am obsessed with that show, so highly recommend it. So yeah, just keep an eye out. We've got some great interviews still coming. Lots to come for what's on tonight. Awesome. Awesome. And there's a link to what's on tonight in the show notes.

[01:09:38] Thank you. And if you like what we do, please give us a five-star rating, drop a review, or at least give us a like, a follow, and subscribe. And next time we'll be covering Buffy season five, episode one, Buffy versus Dracula. Thanks everyone. And he's, uh, anagogic? Really? He looks like he's eating enough. I love her.

[01:10:07] All right, that's the end of the non-spoiler section. If you want to avoid spoilers, you should stop listening right now. All right, it is time for... It's too bad we can't sneak a look at the Watcher Diaries and read up on Angel. I'm sure it's full of fun facts to know and tell. Yeah. That's too bad. That stuff is private. Also, Giles keeps them in his office, in his personal files.

[01:10:34] Most importantly, it would be wrong. I always love the way she says that line. Me too. It's so, it's so very Buffy. Oh my God, Penny, the hotel! I know! Oh, so they have this brief moment where Angel and Joe pop up in the hotel when they're running from all these demons that have, like, put out a hit, basically, on Joe and her baby.

[01:11:01] And I remember at the time being like, what is happening? Because Angel, like, looks very affected by the space. And she says, you've been here before, right? And he's like, we ought to go. But next episode, we get to find out that this is a place of Angel's, like, deep shame. And it becomes, like, one of the most important characters for a very long time. I love the hotel as a set. I love the look of it.

[01:11:32] That style of architecture, the sort of early 20th century Hollywood architecture. Oh, just, I love it. And giving them a permanent space to work out of that has so many different aspects to it is great for the show. Giving them this big, like, lobby area where they can have big scenes happen instead of the cramped office space that he was in before is fantastic.

[01:12:00] I love everything about the hotel. I am so excited. I thought they did a great job of just, like, giving us a flash of it and then moving on so that viewers would be like, what? What was that all about? Right. Because, oh, I remembered it just because it's one of, like I said, one of my favorite things, but I can remember watching this the first time and thinking, you've been here before. Like, oh, okay. That was weird. And then not knowing what was coming next week.

[01:12:29] And then, bam, here it is. And you're like, wow. Oh. Yeah. What's it called? The Hyperion? The Hyperion. I think it's the name of the hotel. Yeah. We also got just the tiniest little taste of the fact that Lindsay is going to fall in love with Darla. Yes. And I love the tension that that creates. Lindsay is like, he is down bad for her. And she's like, I'm using you. And he's like, cool. And he's like, use me. Yeah. I'm cool with that.

[01:12:58] Hey, as long as you're open and honest in your relationships, you do whatever works for you. Yeah. That's fine. You know, that's what Lindsay's into. That's great. Although there is a great scene where at one point, what's his name? Harlan is like healthy attachments, Lindsay. Healthy attachments. Which coming from Harlan is like, coming from any. No, not Harlan. Harlan. Any advice from anyone at Wolfram and Hart is just like. Yeah.

[01:13:29] Really? You don't, it's not a grain of salt. It's like, take it with a box of kosher salt. Yes. Like the whole box. Because Harlan is evil and he's trying to help you be more evil, but also more controllable. So, uh, like all law firms, law firm partners. Um, but I love the dynamic it sets up. We also don't know yet that Darla was brought back human. At this point, we think she's. Which is really fun.

[01:13:55] And they have that throw away, throw away line about, is it Chopin who died from consumption too young? Um, which is going to come back because, um, turns out human Darla is dying. That's right. I forgot about that. And it's not consumption, but she's dying from, I think it's like syphilis or something. I think it was, it's a, I think it's syphilis because it was something that was rampant back in Darla's origin time. Yeah.

[01:14:24] Um, that's, oh God. Everything that happens with Darla in season two is just nonstop excellence in terms of storytelling. I'm going to be honest. Like she messes with Angel. She does. You don't like it? No, I do like it. I think everything that happens from here to the end of the series that I can remember. I don't remember DUDS episodes or anything. We'll see as we venture through it.

[01:14:52] But I just remember being absolutely enthralled with Angel. I liked season one, but it was season two. I was like, I, it was much watched television. Like I could not wait till the next week to see what was going to happen next. I, at this, at season one of Angel, I watched because it was an extension of Buffy and it was on after Buffy. Season two, Angel, I watched for itself. Yep. You said that way more eloquently than I was trying to.

[01:15:21] I do remember a stretch of episodes in season four that are like, what the F? But, um, then it picks back up and season five is just fantastic. Um, the stuff that happens in season four is pretty universally. Like there's a lot of people who are with me on being like, why, what, what, what are we doing? What was the plot of season four?

[01:15:48] So first there's like, remember there's like the beast that blots out the sun. Oh, the baby. You have to take, yeah. It's Cordelia getting pregnant by Connor. That is like, what? Yeah. But, but what it produces is one of the greatest villains of all time. That's why I was. The Jasmine storyline I like, but there's like a stretch in the middle when Cordy is like evil and pregnant.

[01:16:13] And the whole thing she has with Connor where I was just like, make it get off my TV. Yeah, that was gross, but that looking back on it now, knowing Josh Whedon's mentality and mindset and her charisma car for their being on her way out. Yeah. It actually pisses me off even more. Yeah. I hate everything about it. I loved when they have to take away Angel's soul so he can fight the beast. I love that storyline. That's great. Yeah.

[01:16:44] Having evil Angelus back on purpose, like that's fantastic. And then, like you said, the Jasmine storyline is really fun. So good. I remember that. High of mine. Like, wow. I still am very excited to get to that. Yeah. And Gina Torres. Oh, I love her. Yeah. Angel, this is where Angel starts to pick up. Like the up ramp into season two.

[01:17:11] It just gets better and better and better as we go through season two. And I do think that part of that is just that they have the success of season one that allowed them to have like a little bit more latitude with plots, a little bit more long-term planning, knowing that they're going to have a full season two, like being able to introduce longer storylines, being able to expand the cast a little bit, being able to have better sets.

[01:17:36] Like all of that stuff shows up in season two, like the hotel, Darla, having Gunn join the cast, having Lauren join the cast, like all these things just make season two so much better than season one. For sure. Season one was all about like, oh, this has a lot of potential and there's some great moments. And then season two, you're like, I like the story. I like where it's going. Like, it's like, yeah. They find their footing. Yeah, I'm excited. And I hope all of our listeners are too.

[01:18:04] And that you all come along with us for the ride. And please send in some feedback about Buffy versus Dracula because that episode is tons of fun. I'm going to do that. I'm looking forward. Yeah. All right. That's the complete end of our show. And I want to thank everybody for listening. And until next time, I'm Penny. And I'm Becky. And I'm five by five. Keep slaying. I just sing Barry Manilow. You're kidding. In front of people.

[01:18:33] And here I am talking about my petty little problems. Just wanted to give you a little perspective. Copacabana? Mandy. I don't want to dwell on it. Road to redemption is a rocky path. There it is. Think we might make it?

[01:19:28] We all need advice, but it's not always clear who to ask, even in 2026. Enter how to. The longstanding advice show and Ambie Award nominated best personal growth podcast. That's back with new episodes and a new host. Who? Me. Mike Peska. Each week, I tackle a listener question ranging from travel to finance to relationships and beyond with help from a world-class expert. You know, someone who actually very much knows what they're talking about.

[01:19:54] Think of it as eavesdropping on someone else's therapy session without the copay or awkward silences. If you've got questions, we'll find the experts and the answers. So follow How To with Mike Peska wherever you get podcasts. Have you ever asked yourself, can the president really do that? Or wondered if there was too much money in political campaigns? Then check out the new season of You Might Be Right, hosted by us, former Tennessee governors Phil Bredesen and Bill Haslam. We're back for a brand new season now.

[01:20:22] And You Might Be Right cements the idea that constructive disagreement can lead to real problem solving. This season, we're going to dig into the role of the National Guard, AI regulation, and a lot more. New episodes drop every other week. Follow You Might Be Right wherever you get your podcasts.