Severance S2E8 "Sweet Vitriol"

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[00:01:00] Ah! Hmm. Podcast to go! Everything that you have, you owe back to the Eagans as fealty. Fealty? Mine! My designs!

[00:01:24] Circuit Blueprint, Base Code, Overtime Contingency, Glasgow Block, all of it! Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Karen. And this is Wax Episodic. And this episode we're covering Widow's Bay. I'm just kidding. You wish.

[00:01:49] We're covering Severance Season 2, Episode 8, Sweet Vitriol. And just to make it a little easier, let me, hold on a second. Pass some of that sweet vitriol over here. No, I'm going to huff in some ether to make the podcast go fine. I usually just huff a little before each podcast.

[00:02:19] Never mentioned that before. Huh. Huh. Huh. All right, let me read the summary. Okay. It says, this is my first time reading this, by the way. Cobell arrives in Salt's Neck, the seaside town she grew up in. The Lumen Ether Factory that once supported it has closed, and much of the population is addicted to ether. Harmony visits a restaurant to find her old friend Hampton, an ether dealer who secretly drives her to her mother's house.

[00:02:45] Harmony's mother, Charlotte, died after a long illness while Harmony was at Lumen Boarding School. Leaving Harmony's Aunt Sissy, a Lumen devotee, in charge of the home. Harmony barges into the house against Sissy's protests and falls asleep crying on Charlotte's old bed. Hampton finds her, and they take ether. In the outdoor storeroom, Harmony finds her yearbook and her sketches of the severance procedure and chip, proving she was in fact the true inventor.

[00:03:14] Sissy attempts to burn the pages, but Harmony saves them and drives off in Hampton's truck as a car approaches the house. With probably Drummond inside, I think. She answers a phone call from Devin, who informs her about Mark's reintegration. So, as we've said many times, we didn't love this episode on First Watch. How about this time? Eh! I liked it. I didn't love it.

[00:03:40] It's a slower pace than a lot of the other episodes, and it was a bottle episode, and it came on the heels of another bottle episode. So, it kind of broke up the flow of the series. The series was really getting going. Yeah. The season was getting going, and then, okay, we had the Gemma episode, which I loved. Didn't mind having the Gemma episode.

[00:04:07] But then we had this episode, and I'm thinking, couldn't you have sort of broken that up into bits and pieces and stuck it around? I mean, not the entire thing, but I think the whole thing could have been shortened, and I think it could have been sprinkled over other episodes. The information could have been imparted without devoting a whole... It was short. It felt long, but it was short. 87 minutes.

[00:04:33] By the way, I've noticed a lot of hosts, not just you, use that term, bottle episode. And I don't think people are using it correctly, because here it says, A bottle episode is a TV episode produced cheaply and restricted in scope to use as few actors' effects and sets as possible, typically filmed on pre-existing standing sets. It's... They're originally designed to save money for a season's more expensive episodes. Fascinating. I don't think that was this, right? It was...

[00:05:03] Okay. ...its own thing that was apart from everything else. I don't know what would be a name for it. Yeah. What's the term for an episode that's... Shitty? No. I don't know. I'm just kidding. I haven't even said what I thought about it yet. And also, if anyone out there likes the episode, my apologies. Yeah. No, I mean, I actually, I'm kind of playing around. Yeah, me too. You know, when I first watched this, it was...

[00:05:30] I didn't really absorb it, except for the twist at the end that Hunter Niko Bell actually created the severance procedure. And I think the episode is really built around that revelation. I think so, too. Which is sort of why we're like, maybe they could have just said that. But there's more to it than that. But it was hard for me to absorb because I don't... She's probably one of my least favorite characters. I find her annoying as a person and as a character.

[00:05:59] And the way that... It was so drab. And that's the point. Like, it's about the devastation that corporations can leave in their wake. But it's like, oh, what if this was the first episode? Like, hey, everybody, let's watch a TV show where we get to see how these people have been ruined. So great. And I think...

[00:06:27] So I remember just watching it and just sort of spacing out, not really getting what was happening. And I only watched it once. So that's kind of why I thought, oh, now with the podcast, when we're really digging into it, we'll get more out of it. And I have a ton of notes. I have a ton of stuff to talk about. Great. Good. But as far as whether I liked it, I did like it more. I found it interesting. But I'm also very glad that not every episode of this show is like that.

[00:06:54] And it really doesn't have a lot of the things that we love Severance for. Severance is a fun show. And this is not fun hardly at all. A little bit. A little bit. But not much at all. Yeah. Yep. So, yeah. I don't know. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's spot on. I mean, it's interesting and it's bold and it's striking in a lot of ways. And I guess I'm glad that they did it.

[00:07:19] I don't know if I would want them to spread it out into different episodes or whatever, but I don't want to see another episode like this. Yeah. Yeah. So do you mind if I go first? No, please. Okay. I'm going to talk about the Aether Factory and Salt's Neck. Yeah. Yeah. So Aether, the Aether they're talking about here is called diethyl ether.

[00:07:44] And it's a colorless, highly volatile, and flammable liquid with a sweet odor and sweet vitriol. It was used as an anesthetic and a pain reliever since the 1840s. But over time became replaced in most countries with other things because it's not safe to take. I guess in developing countries, they still use it sometimes now, even to this day.

[00:08:10] But it is still used for other things everywhere, like in some cleaning products, plastics production, chemical synthesis, and other things. It has a high addiction and abuse potential, as we saw in this episode. When you huff it, it leads to euphoria, dizziness, hallucinations. But if you use it for a long time, you could have memory loss, anxiety, depression, heart problems, brain damage, and even death.

[00:08:40] Yeah. Supposedly, it was used as a party drug. I could see that. I mean, I've been at parties where people have been huffing nitrous. Seems similar. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's as bad for you, but anyway, yeah. Probably not great. Yeah. I would not be surprised if there's some people huffing ether to this day around this country. Yes. Just to feel the effects.

[00:09:10] Here's a question for you. There's that famous picture, famous in the Lumen mythology of Keir at the ether vat, that he's stirring the vat of ether while his wife looks on. And she was the swab girl, and that's where they met. So if you're over a vat of ether, are you not breathing in ether?

[00:09:38] I mean, from what I read, you don't actually get ether from like a mine. You get it by you synthesize it from alcohol. So I think this is sort of a fictional account of some kind of natural ether resource that doesn't actually exist from what I can understand.

[00:10:03] So just to say that, I don't know if there's a real answer to your question, but it seems like yes. Okay. That was just me wondering. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I imagine all the people in this setting of child laborers in this ether mine or whatever it is are totally high on ether. Right. Right. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

[00:10:27] Because there's a giant, I mean, from the picture of what, if the painting has any basis of reality, in reality, they are breathing in ether. Yeah. I think the regulations are a bit lax here. Yeah. I don't think OSHA is regulating here. No. I'm a little confused about the origin of the ether factory because it seemed like Kier Egan was working there.

[00:10:55] Was he a child when he was working there? He looks like an adult in the painting. Yeah. So, and it looked, so. Okay. Maybe he wasn't working there as a child. Yeah. That would make more sense because Kier Egan is the founder of Lumen and it seems like this ether factory was their family's first business, right? Before Lumen even existed. And I would assume Keir Egan would be in charge.

[00:11:25] But then again, why would he be down in there working right over the ether vat? Right. Exactly. Maybe the mythology is just a little confused, you know, because you can never trust it. Right. Right. Exactly. But either way, it seems like that Lumen or that the Egan's started this ether factory and then the town built up around it and the economy of the town.

[00:11:50] And like Cobell said to her friend Hampton, the town is older than I remember, frailer. And Cobell said to her aunt Sissy, Lumen destroyed this town. You owe them no loyalty. And Sissy said there was no town before the factory. So that sounds like the town grew up around the factory. And that's bullshit, by the way.

[00:12:11] Just because if you as a corporation start something that an economy builds around, then that doesn't mean that you have no responsibility to the community that you've built. In fact, you have more responsibility because because you built the community and you brought the people there. You have more responsibility to the community, in my opinion. That's what I would agree with that, too. That's why we're friends. Yep. Yeah.

[00:12:40] So, anyway, we know they use child labor. And then when Cobell's talking to Hampton, I love this. She says, the town's older than I remember, frailer. And he goes, yeah, well, with the market readjustment from a few years ago and the fluctuating interest rates, there was a retrenchment from some of the core infrastructure investments. Which basically is corporate speak for Lumen abandoned the town. Yes.

[00:13:10] There was some kind of a reason why, like economic downturn or business change or something, and Lumen just cut out. And then their town was left to rot. Right. And it makes me wonder if Hampton was employed by Lumen as a spokesperson. He came up with that pretty quickly. He at least heard it. But, yeah, maybe he was one of the ones that helped come up with that. Yeah. Because he hates Lumen.

[00:13:40] I mean, it was interesting that Cobell's aunt, Sissy, who's a cure, acolyte, still a hardcore believer, is a pariah, which means like an outcast. And I think that's because most people in the town hate Lumen now. Because Lumen left them to rot. They left them all addicted to ether, suffering, and no spending on the infrastructure anymore. And it just, yeah. Ugh.

[00:14:08] And so, looking at the signs of this rot, I love the shots coming into the town. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I love the slate. Any slate-colored sea I love. But then you see quickly the buildings are all rotting out and decayed and mostly abandoned. And the lack of color, it just felt like the blood had been drained from the place. That's what I thought of. Filmed in Newfoundland, by the way. Newfoundland. Yeah.

[00:14:36] That's like way northeast North America, right? It is. Yep. And then you see like people huffing ether and coughing and this woman in the diner with oxygen tubes up her nose. And you find out that Cobell's mother died of respiratory problems, which I would assume are ether related. They don't actually say that.

[00:14:58] But it just, so you start, I start thinking about how corporations can leave destruction like this in their wake. One maybe minor example, but it's close to me. There was a Hershey factory in Oakdale, California, where my mom worked for like 15 years. I didn't know that. And I worked there for two summers and I would eat like eight candy bars a shift. It was great.

[00:15:27] But they left for Mexico and my mom was out of a job, you know, just SOL. And I mean, you know, she picked up the pieces, but just all the people who worked there for years just left high and dry. Yeah, that's bullshit, man.

[00:15:45] And just thinking about just corporations like AI using up all this water and energy with their data centers or oil companies pulling resources from the ground that gets pumped into the air and wrecks the climate. Corporations, I mean, pumping toxic waste into rivers and stuff, which is why we absolutely need regulations to curb these kind of things and keep environmental balance and all kinds of stuff like that. That's what this episode got me thinking of.

[00:16:14] And I'm glad, you know, that it hit me, you know, so that's a good thing about the episode. Just be thinking about this kind of thing. Yeah. And unions, by the way, also unions changed everything as well. Working conditions for people. And also child labor laws so that eight-year-olds didn't have to go to the ether factory for 10 hours a day to toil away in an ether factory.

[00:16:42] It makes me wonder if that's the reason why Harmony Cobell came up with the idea for severance. Because her life was so shitty as a little kid toiling in this ether factory. Maybe she was thinking, how do I get out of this? How can I separate myself so that I don't have to endure this hardship? Wouldn't it be amazing if I could just sever myself from this?

[00:17:11] And maybe that was sort of the impetus for coming up with the severance procedure because her job was so shitty. So shitty. Well, I think that you could have a point there. I think it very much fits with the ethos of the Eagans who have this whole thing about taming the four tempers.

[00:17:36] I don't know if I ever noticed this on first watch, but this whole time through I've noticed there's a lot of talk about avoiding pain. And ether is like that. That's what it's for. It's a pain reliever. It's an anesthetic. It's a way to disconnect your awareness from your pain. And in the moment, it seems great. But over the long term, it's harmful. And that's like this episode title, Sweet Vitriol.

[00:18:02] It smells sweetly, but vitriol is bad. It's sulfuric acid. And so it seems good in the moment. It's like what you were saying last week about how taking away all discomfort isn't always good for you. That we have pain receptors and emotional pain sensitivity for a reason so that we can do something about it.

[00:18:28] And you need like tension in your life, challenges to stay healthy and strong and adaptable. And so I think that overall this show is, well, it's about a lot of things. But in one sense, it's a commentary on how capitalism encourages companies to keep coming up with ways to make life easier and easier for people so they can sell that to us. And we buy it because we don't like pain. We want to ease our discomfort.

[00:18:54] But then we're just going to end up being those fat TV watching slurpy drinking people at the end of Wally, you know? Yes. Did you see that? Yes. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Right, right. It plugged into there, into our computers with the, yes, just turning into blob people. Yeah. Right. Right. Exactly. I'm getting there.

[00:19:19] But I mean, that's why I think Ether, I really made that connection watching this episode, that Ether connects to the severance procedure because they're both ways of displacing your pain, dissociating from your pain. Yeah. Ooh, that's good. Yeah. I was, I was, I should have kept that for the Patreon, but you guys get it for free.

[00:20:01] We'll see you next time. Just listen and enjoy. Aldi. Good for everyone. Anyway, what else do you want to talk about? I love that now we kind of understand a little bit more about, about harmony. We know more about why she is the way she is.

[00:20:28] She's this weird, cold, lumen-loving freak. And now we see why. We see that she was an overachiever. She was a child labor. She was stuck in the ether mill and was thinking of any way that she could possibly escape. She came up with the severance procedure. She came up with the whole thing. Yeah. Which is, which is kind of astonishing. So.

[00:20:55] Because we see like engineering schematics showing that she, we never see her in the context where she's talking science. But now we know that she is smart enough to be able to invent this whole thing. The whole thing. The whole thing. Including the, uh, the Glasgow block. The whole. All of it. That was hers. Mine. My designs. Yeah. Yeah. That was her.

[00:21:21] So, um, she was this overachiever girl and, um, then, uh, she was rescued, um, out of there by, um, the fellowship to attend the Myrtle Egan School for Girls. So, um, she attended this academy and left the town behind. So, see a salt neck.

[00:21:43] And, um, and then she became even more of a cure acolyte and, um, and excelled and, and, uh, finalized the severance procedure. And, um, and we could talk about that. Um, she was also in the yearbook. You can see that she was valedictorian of her class. She played field hockey. Um, by the way, that, did you notice that the, um, it, uh, it was the fighting kids.

[00:22:13] That was the, uh. That was the name of the field hockey team. Yeah. The fighting kids. Like goats. I think goat is, maybe it's the mascot. Yes. Right. Yes. The mascot is probably a goat. You're right. There are goats all over this episode. I wrote down the whole entry in the yearbook for her. Do you want to hear it? Do it. Do it. Yeah. It says Harmony Cobell, a beacon of academic excellence and leadership leaves an indelible mark on the year of Wiles graduating class.

[00:22:41] I guess they name each class after one of the nine core principles. Okay. Uh, throughout her height and it's fitting that hers is Wiles. Yeah, isn't it? Throughout her high school journey, she exhibited unwavering commitment to her academic pursuits, consistently achieved top grades and mastering challenging subjects. Beyond the classroom, Harmony actively engaged in extracurricular activities, leading the field

[00:23:05] hockey team as captain and acting as president of the goat husbandry club, which you'd think might relate to the goats. Yes. Yes. I mean, I don't know how, but it says we celebrate Harmony's journey, not only for individual brilliance, but also for the positive influence and inspiration she has imparted on both her peers and educators alike.

[00:23:28] And then we see the other page shows her as the Jane Egan Wintertide fellow, which is all, I mean, uh, Miss Huang is following right in her footsteps. Go, she got, went to the same school. Uh, was it Myrtle Egan School for Girls? And she's trying to get this fellowship to the winter tide. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, uh, she is, does seem sort of like a, a little clone of Cobell.

[00:23:58] Overachiever, kind of snarky. Uh, yeah, a little, little cold, little weird. Yeah. But I think that, yeah, I didn't think of it the way you just said where she was escaping. Uh, but I think you could be right. But also I think it's sort of a carrot stick thing with this Egan cult that she was just getting a lot of validation from her involvement with it. A lot of accolades and stuff like that.

[00:24:25] And, and, um, we find out that her mother hated Lumen. And I think that might be in part because they took her daughter away from her as she was sick. And also it seems like Harmony Cobell is feeling guilty that she wasn't by her mother's side. You know, I didn't even get to say goodbye to her and I would have taken care of her if I was here. So it's just another thing of a cult separating children from their families. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:24:54] And we also learned that, that, uh, I mean, according to Sissy, um, Harmony's mother pulled the breathing tube out herself. Who do you believe? I think that it could very well be that she pulled the breathing tube out herself. Yeah. I don't know for sure, but I think Sissy was probably telling the truth about that, but it doesn't necessarily reflect that well on her anyway.

[00:25:24] No. If her sister that she was supposed to be taking care of just wanted to end it all. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so let's, uh, I would love to talk about Harmony not getting credit for developing the severance chip. Yeah.

[00:25:39] So, um, she finds that her, her little, um, book where she made all her notes, her original notes that she kept hidden, um, in the, the bust of, uh, Kier. And, uh, she, in the, in the shed and she runs into consult Sissy who says, why have you never spoken of this?

[00:26:02] And, and, and Harmony, uh, replies, I was told Kier's knowledge is for all, um, that if I sought credit, I would be banished. Hardcore. Yeah. I love that scene because then it looked like Sissy, the way they played it. And I know this was on purpose because Sissy was like, what? Oh, wait, you did all this. This is remarkable. Yeah. Why did you never tell me?

[00:26:30] And then she says what you just said, you know, I was told I'd be banished. And then you think that maybe Sissy's going to be like, oh my God, that's awful. But she grabs it and tries to throw it in the fire. That was the funniest part. And I was like, oh shit, she's going to burn it. But I love that it also defied expectations by having Harmony just go in there and whoop, sort of snatches it back like a ninja. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:00] I mean, she's got this tension of trying to be a good Kier Egan acolyte and be humble and not take credit and watch other people take all the, and it really just sort of makes a lot of things make sense. Why has she thought she knows more than the board and anyone else about the severance procedure and seems so identified with it? Why she decided to be Mrs. Selvig and keep an eye on Mark to see how it was all going.

[00:27:29] It's like, she's the creator of this. She's trying to test it out and observe why Gemma's there. I think she's testing whether Mark would recognize his own wife, you know? Yep. And I mean, what's interesting too to me is I think you and I know I definitely forgot this twist because I feel like one of us would have mentioned it at least once in one of the Audi time spoiler segments, but we never did. Right.

[00:27:58] Did you remember? I do. Yeah. Yeah. Because I like, if I would have, now I feel like, oh shit, now I need to go back and watch it all over again because it kind of recontextualizes her parts a little bit. I mean, I think the stuff I just said sort of maybe that encapsulates it all. I don't know. I wonder if they had this in mind from the start and they were playing to it or not, or they just came up with it later.

[00:28:23] But now that we know that she came up with it, it does seem like they had it in mind from the start to me. It makes sense. It really, really does. And to be fair, Patricia Arquette's performance is amazing. She is amazing. I love this actor so much. I love her. I love her. I don't love Harmony Cobell on this episode, but I have loved Harmony Cobell on other episodes.

[00:28:53] But this episode, I was just like, oh, come on. What's going on at Lumen with our friends at MDR? But who knows? Well, I am trying to figure out where her head is at and why she wanted these notes. Because the last we saw, she was trying to get her job back and demanded to be the head of the severance floor. Right. And then Helena was like, no.

[00:29:23] And there was that scene out in the parking lot where Helena was like, come on in and we'll do an obligement session or whatever. I think that's when she said that. We'll get the board on the horn. Yeah. And then the scary looking guy from security was there. And it's some term, though, that suggested they were going to do a mind wipe or something. And it was just, yeah, like she's like, hell no. And she drove away. And now she's decided to pick these up. But yeah, that's a good question. Why?

[00:29:52] I think she might be anti-Lumen now. Because she was already rebelling to some degree. I mean, she was fired because she was taking matters into her own hands. She didn't like that the board wasn't respecting her knowledge and that she's the one who fucking did all this so they should listen to her. She's like, yeah, I think reintegration could be possible. Oh, no, you can't. You're not allowed to say that. What do you mean I'm not allowed to say that? I'm the one who did all this. Right.

[00:30:22] So they were just totally not respecting her or listening to her. So she decided to do like, well, I guess she was fired because she poses Mrs. Selvig. Right. And as a lactation consultant and everything. And she didn't tell them about Hellie's suicide attempt. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:39] And so now I just think between being fired and then being scared and running off and also coming back to the town and seeing how destroyed it is, because it seems like she hadn't been there in a long time. Right. And she was surprised at the state of it. And when she said to her aunt, Lumen destroyed this town, you owe them no loyalty.

[00:31:08] That seems pretty significant of a thing to say. If she really means that, does she take that on for herself too? You know? And then when Sissy says that her mom ended her own life and she said, I thought you were different. My flower, I tried to help you grow, but now I see you're a weed. And like anyone not in the cult is a waste of space. Right. I just hope that reinforces Cobel's thoughts.

[00:31:37] If I'm right, that Lumen is bad. And then she's still running away from them at the end, like presumably Drummond or someone else from Lumen arrives to try to get her. And then she's talking to Devin on the phone and wants to know everything about what's going on with Mark. I like that Devin says, Mark's been reintegrating. She goes, Raghavi? And she hasn't killed him yet. So I think she's like, that woman's reckless. Now, I don't know.

[00:32:06] Maybe I'm just like fantasizing and it's wishful thinking. But if Cobel does switch sides, then maybe she can do a better job helping Mark. You know? I agree. I think that's a really excellent point. And I just want to reassure people who know that we've seen to the end of the season. But also you should know that it's been, what, a year and a half? Yeah. And we remember nothing. I know. You guys are like, what are you talking about? Cobel kills Mark at the end, Jason. Right. We remember nothing.

[00:32:35] We know nothing. Do you remember? No. No. Genuinely don't. Yeah. So I remembered this episode up until about this point. I remember what happens. I remember bits and pieces of the next two episodes, but only bits and pieces. Yeah. Yeah. Same thing. Pretty much. Like my memory has been wiped somehow. Yeah. Yeah. I remember I really liked the setup for the next episode, which I won't mention. So as not to spoil anyone watching for the first time.

[00:33:04] And I'm bummed you're not going to be here for it because you're on vacation. And I mean, I'm happy to have Eric on as a guest co-host and that'll be really fun, but that's a good episode. So I hope you like call it or write in or something. I will. I will. I mean, I am going to be a little bit out of touch because I am going to be, there's an island right off of Massachusetts that is just about, you know, 30 miles offshore

[00:33:33] of Massachusetts that I'm going to be spending some time at. They don't get cell phone service or internet and they have, and weird things have said to be happening. But you know what? It's the next, it's the next Martha's Vineyard and it's definitely not cursed. Sorry. I'm obsessed. Good luck. I'm going to Maine, folks. I'm not going to Windows Bay. One more episode for the season. Has it been renewed? I don't even know for sure. I hope so. I don't know. It seems like a big hit. It seems like a big hit.

[00:34:03] I don't know for sure that it's been renewed. Apple, please, for all, for the love of God, please renew this. All right. Do you have any more points that you want to talk about? Let me see. I had more details on some things. Do it. About Sissy, that's Celestine Sissy Cobell, her aunt.

[00:34:27] And apparently Mr. Drummond called her and told her that your niece is not in good standing anymore. Which I wondered if, because she said, you know, I was proud of you, but then you, now you're a weed. And I wonder if it was just that phone call that made the difference. Because before that, Sissy thought, oh, she's an employee of Lumen in good standing. Way to go. Right? I think that was what made the difference for her. I think so too. Maybe.

[00:34:56] I think so too. And then she was judgmental that Cobell's mom wasn't a believer in here, which I don't know if we really knew that before. But I was looking back at chats that were had in the Discord while this was airing. And Nathan Eshelman said, quote, it's interesting when you look back on how in season one, Cobell called her mom an atheist to any mark. And she called her mom a Catholic to outie mark. Maybe she wasn't lying in either case.

[00:35:25] In the real world, she mentions a real religion and inside Lumen, she's an atheist to Kier. I like that. Yeah. It was so interesting. Yeah. I saw that too. Yeah. Um, yeah. And I wonder who was powering up the road to, um, come get her. I mean, was it Drummond? Could he have taken a, um, a helicopter from Lumen to Saltzneck and then, um, been powering

[00:35:54] down the road to Sissy's house? And why? What are they going to do? Like, I feel like they're going to pull a Gemma on her or something. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Moving past them. Like erase her somehow. And I don't know if she has a chip in her own head. I wouldn't be surprised, um, that it just is not ever activated. Well, then they could do something remotely. Oh yeah, that's true. Right. Yeah.

[00:36:24] I feel like they're just coming for, um, this guy Hampton. I liked watching the dynamics between Hampton and Cobell because when he, she first goes to the cafe and they're looking at each other like, I fucking hate you. Right. They're hostile. But, um, it's not completely like that. Like you can tell they have a complicated relationship. Yes. And I love that they do that without any words. And I was already guessing.

[00:36:51] Um, I think you guys might've been lovers and you had a breakup. Maybe she deserted you or something, but there's still love there. They don't bother explaining the details, but that's the kind of mystery. I love that we just, we, we need to know all we need to know about how they treat each other kind of. And, um, I mean, I, I, after the whole episode is said and done, uh, we find out that they worked together in the either factory and I, I don't think that was the first time they ever kissed.

[00:37:19] I think they'd been lovers at some point, but my guess is that, um, the, one of the reasons why he hates her, if not the main reason is because he just hates Lumen for having wrecked his town and she's still working with Lumen as far as he knows. So she's like a representative of the evil overlord. Right. Right. Although I think she does tell him words the effect of, um, I'm, I'm, I'm an outlaw now.

[00:37:49] Yeah. Well, and then he comes around after that. And then, um, gives her his truck. Yeah. Yeah. Helps her out. For all intents and purposes. But I like how she'll just like when they met at the factory, she just stands in front of his truck, staring at him intensely until he finally is okay. Okay. Gets out. Yeah. Or even when she left the diner, she's like, meet me at the factory and turns around and walks out without even seeing if he's going to say, okay.

[00:38:16] Cause she just knows he's going to be there cause he's her bitch. She's just kind of like, I mean, she even littered at one point. Did you see that? Oh yeah. She threw the plastic, she threw the plastic water bottle down. She hates that town. That's what, that's what you do when you hate a place. Yeah. You just throw trash on the ground. Who can't, you don't care. And then I really, I like this whole sequence where she goes into her mother's room and she

[00:38:43] has a vulnerable moment where she takes the breathing tube from her mom's ventilator and starts, I mean, nothing's probably coming out. Right. Well, I think when I first saw this because I was only halfway paying attention, I thought she was breathing ether, but it's gotta be oxygen, right? Yeah. It would be oxygen if it was working, but maybe she's just doing it to sort of feel connected with her mom. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And trying to imagine what her mom's last, last moments were like. Yeah.

[00:39:13] And I felt maybe more empathy for her there than I ever had, because this is a moment where she's empathizing with her mom who hates lumen. So she's like operating on a level that's not about lumen at all. Right. Which I liked. Then she falls asleep and Hampton shows up and offers her some ether. Want to get high? And they both get high. And I'm like, yeah, like I said, ether's about getting rid of pain and she's in a lot of

[00:39:42] pain right now for a couple different reasons. Yep. So I don't like seeing it. Like, I mean, it's too, or it's an addict and someone taking part in that addiction, but it was a really interesting scene anyway. What'd you think of it? Yes. Oh, I loved it. I loved it. It was, it was incredibly sweet, but I did think it was funny when she said to him, you're higher than a bearded vulture.

[00:40:07] And also it was, it was rich that she tells him, shoot, I want to find it. Shame on you for selling it. Yeah. Shame on you for selling it. But ironically, that's exactly what lumen does. Lumen sells it. So yeah. Totally. Yeah.

[00:40:29] Just thinking about how, like she, she invented this thing, this severance thing that I think it very much is, um, an echo or what am I trying to say? An analog of ether because it's something that takes away plain pain, but it ends up being corrosive to society. And so it's a societal ill and people like cobelt who invent things like this, don't

[00:40:57] think about that part of it. They just think about the power that it's going to give them. I think, I mean, I don't know, maybe she's talked herself into thinking it's actually a good thing, but I think about like Mark Zuckerberg, who I don't think gives a shit about the negative impacts of social media. I don't think he does either. Jeff Bezos, who doesn't care that he put thousands of small businesses out of business, the Sackler family, the worst of all who promoted fentanyl and caused a widespread opiate addiction

[00:41:24] epidemic leading to all these deaths, including my own mother, by the way, Walter White's bad. It's right along with him, right? He never even tried his own meth. He just killed all these people. I don't want to make light of it though. It's, it's awful, right? Especially the Sackler stuff. Just sacks of shit. And there's still, there's still museum galleries, plenty of museums and other places that still have the Sackler name on them.

[00:41:54] Here in Boston, just to name one, that they need to scrape that name off and throw in the dustbin. They should be pariahs. Yep. They should be in jail. Yep. Yeah. It'd be, it'd be as if there was like the Jeffrey Epstein wing of this, of this art gallery. Right. Um, yeah, no one would accept that. I don't know why there are still Sackler names on things. I don't know. I don't know why they're walking around, uh, free. Yep.

[00:42:23] And, and, and, and, and just a little, I've already a little soapboxy, but just a little bit more is I, this is why we need governments to regulate these kinds of things. Correct. Governments aren't motivated by profit. Ideally they're motivated by the good of their citizens. But when we have something like the citizens united decision that the Supreme court voted in favor of that lets corporations, um, give unlimited money to politicians. Then it doesn't work that way.

[00:42:51] The corporations can buy off the politicians and it's a corrupting corrosive force on our, on our government. It's not good for any of us. You got to have people preventing kids from working in ether factories, you know? I love that you're coming in hot this week. Yeah. I mean, this is what this show brings up for me. It's not like, Oh good. This is going to give me a chance to talk about something I've always wanted to talk about. This is what is the show is about. That's why I'm talking about it.

[00:43:16] You know, especially this episode where they, they, um, talk and where they, you know, showed you here's the wreckage of a town. Here's a wreck town that the corporation up and left. Everybody is addicted. Um, it's incredibly, uh, poor and, um, Oh, and also they used child labor. Yeah.

[00:43:40] And I mean, the reason why we have a show, if anybody's like, Oh, I, I, I watch shows as, as an escapism. Don't talk about the real world. I'm like, well, you should be watching something else then go watch Widow's Bay because, uh, this show is about these kinds of forces in our society. That's the only thing it's about. Yep. Yep. It's not, it is not like, uh, I mean, it's a lot of other things, but the, the primary story here is the severance procedure.

[00:44:10] What they are, the mystery around it, why they're doing it. And, um, and the more we learn about Lumen, the worse it looks for them. And, and I would argue what all of that says about corporations. Like they're trying to say something about corporations in society. That's right. That's what all of it is. Yep. All right. I think, uh, that's all I had to say. Oh wait, I do have some notes. Do you have any notes? Uh, no, go right ahead.

[00:44:38] As you mentioned, you know, well, Cobel reminded Hampton that Kier and his wife Imogen met at the ether factory. We saw that in that painting, the corporate, uh, the courtship of Kier and Imogen. And, and she was a swab girl. I don't really know what a swab girl is. Maybe she like cleaned machinery. Yeah. That sounds like what a swab girl would do. So it's a low level position.

[00:45:02] Um, it's also the name of the bathhouse slash soap shop where Cobel pretended that she worked as Mrs. Selvig, by the way, the swab girl. Oh, that's what it was called. The swab girl. Thank you for bringing that up. Good catch. I guess it's a play on, you know, Kier history or something. Yeah. Swab girl. Um, I liked when, well, it was crazy when Cobel says to her aunt sissy, what have you done with my things?

[00:45:32] She goes sold to the poor. I'm like, not given to the poor, sold to the poor. Sold to the poor. Yeah, I know. That's hilarious. Next, uh, I read that the theremin, which of course Miss Wang played during the Orkbo, was originally called Etherphone, named after the 19th century belief that radio waves traveled through an all-encompassing ether. Oh, that's so interesting. If true.

[00:46:00] And, and it's the only instrument that you play by not touching it. Crazy. I know. It's so, it's so, the theremin is wild. Yeah, it's so unique. Uh, other notes. Well, only, the only other note I've written down here is that I, I was, I don't know why I was thinking about this, watching this episode, which may be my least favorite episode of the whole series.

[00:46:24] But I think Severance is probably my favorite show that we've covered on wax episodic, which I would not have thought of going and coming into it. But I'm just realizing how great it is as we go over it, you know? It's so good. Yeah. This, it is wonderful. Yeah.

[00:47:29] All right. Let's get into our listener feedback experience. Okay. This first one comes from Megan O'Connell, who says, definitely was not filmed in the United States. Also, I just watched it the other night again, and I'm still like, what the fuck? The town looks miserable, and I guess everyone in it is addicted to ether? Yes. Yes. Yes and yes. That's basically it. Yeah. That's about what I came away with from this episode the first time. All right. What's next? I hope it gets better next week.

[00:47:58] And then Kate EM answered Megan saying, Megan, I'd forgotten to look it up when I watched it because it reminded me so much of where I'm from in Nova Scotia, Canada. It turns out it's Newfoundland, so pretty darn close. Yep.

[00:48:39] See why this wasn't a fan favorite, especially with it being the second to last. Is that right? Third to last. Third to last, yeah. Episode. And we're looking for action and answers, but I didn't hate it. I do wish we'd have gotten into it in the first half of the season, though, but I love Harmony. I've been missing her big time. Patricia Arquette has been underused in season two, which is a real pity as she was the standout character for me in season one.

[00:49:07] And I'll never, ever forget her being a lactation consultant. And when we, Eleanor, latched on to Mama Devin the way Miss Selvig said, baby sips, baby sips, Jesus, it was effing revolting. My stomach turned. Nobody else could have delivered that line and invoked such a reaction. Arquette was born to play Cobel.

[00:49:32] And other than Adam Scott doing some pretty cool performing in the episodes to come, she is the actor who has impressed me most from the show. This episode, though, what are they all sniffing? Do you want to get high? What, for three seconds? No, I don't. I want to visit another realm for the rest of the evening and return to duty tomorrow. That's not what I call getting high.

[00:49:57] A whole episode to tell us that Harmony Cobel invented severance. Well, of course, she fucking did because she's like fucking amazing. I bet you they sit there and huff it for a long time. Not trying to stick up for huffing ether or anything, but. Yes, yes, I do. They'll just take one. Right. Okay. Awesome. Here's Rachel who says, okay, well, they can't all be winners, I guess. Yes.

[00:50:26] No, just kidding. Kind of. This episode is fascinating and striking in its own way. That's pretty much how I felt. New Zed Head meetup in Newfoundland. There we go. Oh, yeah. Let's go. Honestly, I just miss Annie Irving. In fact, the whole episode is so bleak, it makes me long for the MDR office. Good grief. Yeah, that's sort of the ironic thing about this whole show is that the freaking office is the most fun place.

[00:50:56] They get melon parties. Yeah. Dancing. Yeah. But okay. Holy shit. Cobble literally invented severance. How on earth did I not remember that? That's what I was wondering. That piece of information makes this episode just as significant as any other. Honestly, someone needs to study this phenomenon of no one remembering anything about this show despite having watched it all and loved it. I mean, Rachel, I don't know if you watched Fallout. I don't think you did because I don't remember getting messages from you. But there was something similar about that.

[00:51:26] There was this MacGuffin that the whole freaking first season was about. And you don't find out what it is until the end. And I had no clue watching it for the podcast, even though I'd seen the show before. Anyway, this episode did drag a bit for me, particularly the lengthy bit of time she spent in her mother's room. Just one thing I needed to talk out, though. So Sissy is Harmony's aunt and she still, quote, lives by the nine, meaning she's still fully a cult member.

[00:51:56] Harmony's mother was not a believer. And Hampton says she hated Lumen more than I did. So I wonder if she got sick when Harmony was a child. Maybe I missed something. How did Harmony get involved with Lumen at such a young age if her mother wasn't a cult member? Her aunt must have had something to do with that. Harmony said she gave Hampton his taste for ether. So she was definitely involved in their lives. So maybe Harmony was working at the ether factory as an eight-year-old to support the family when her mother got sick.

[00:52:25] And she was targeted because she was essentially parentless yet bright. Cults definitely target vulnerable youth like that. Plus it seems like her aunt was super proud back then and more than willing to encourage Harmony to commit her life to the cult, too. I really wasn't thinking about all this because it just seems like Lumen is everywhere. And I thought they were sort of, they'd taken over the town and pretty much everyone.

[00:52:52] Like I thought it was probably the exception that her mother wasn't into it. But maybe you're right. Maybe her aunt really pushed her into it. And here's a question. Who's Harmony's dad? I don't think we know anything about that, right? And maybe that's another reason why Harmony was ripe for the picking. Yeah. Because Kier's such a father figure. Yeah. Yep. Kier's a father figure.

[00:53:20] Her mother couldn't really stand up for her because she was so sick. Her aunt was a kook. Yep. There you go. She goes on. I listened to the official Severance podcast and Patricia Arquette guest hosted with Adam and Ben for this episode. I learned she improvised the lines, Jack Frost certainly needs some new dandruff shampoo. As well as both when Mark asks if she wants her office door open or closed. That's good.

[00:53:49] I also learned that she originally met James LaGrosse who plays Hampton in the 70s when she was moving and her boyfriend at the time brought a friend over to help carry boxes. That's cool. She, excuse me, she gave James some cookies as a thank you. And he said they were the best cookies he'd ever had, which he also still remembers to this day. Whoa. So apparently Patricia is a better baker than Harmony. She is really fun and so interesting and maybe an acting genius. Listening to her made me want to watch more things she's been in. Oh, man.

[00:54:18] She's fantastic. That's cool. I watched something that she was in a long, long time ago that was about Myanmar. She was in Myanmar and she was, I want to say, like a doctor in Myanmar, a.k.a. Burma. And it was great. She was great. And also, she is stunningly beautiful. She was also in Boyhood. Yeah. I love that movie so much.

[00:54:48] She's so good in that. And she's so beautiful. Good Lord. For people who don't know, Boyhood is a movie by Richard Linklater, which he filmed over 12 years. He'd film a little bit every year. It has Patricia Arquette, Ethan Hawke, and this young actor whose name I've forgotten, but it's about him and his parents. And you see this kid grow up in the movie. Literally. So cool. Yeah. I was also watching that movie.

[00:55:16] I was also afraid the entire time that something really, really awful was going to happen and nothing does. Spoiler alert. Now Richard Linklater is working on another movie that's taking 20 years to film. Good for him. I forget exactly what it is, but they're filming in reverse order. So I think it goes backwards or something. What? It's interesting. Yeah. It's really crazy. He's... Huh. Huh. So anyway, back to Rachel's message.

[00:55:44] She says, a couple notes from last week's podcast. I love the way Gemma informed Devin of her pregnancy by declining the offer of wine. That was so perfectly realistic. It's how I announced my pregnancy to my parents and to close friends of ours. Interesting. I just wasn't so subtle about it. Quote, damn, I wish I could have a drink and then wait for the realization and reaction. That's awesome. It was really fun. And no, I never vomited. Only 30% of pregnant women get morning sickness. So yeah, TV is a lie. Well, it's a 70% lie.

[00:56:15] Also, Jason, thanks for sharing about your experience with IVF. It's so much more common than people realize, right? I don't know how common it is, but we did it. We had to go that route as well. And after the whole process, Caroline was our one and only healthy embryo. So her nickname in the womb was Xena because she's our warrior princess. I really felt for Mark and Gemma and I appreciated her description for feeling, quote, beat to shit. I did not know that, Rachel. That's great. I'm glad it worked out. I'm so glad it worked out for you guys.

[00:56:44] What's the percentage of IVF that works? That's a good question. I don't know. Is it not that uncommon to have like three times going in to get IVF? I probably knew more of these nine years ago when Bodhi was born, but I've forgotten. Yeah. Okay. And then last she says, all right, this episode shed a lot of light on Harmony's bleak, dark past and the far reaching effects of Lumen. But I'm so very excited for the final two episodes. I can't believe we're almost to the end.

[00:57:14] The line you say to someone this week is, you want to get high? Ha ha ha. Just kidding. Ha ha ha. How about you have no salutation here, you blighted snuff slave? Or Hampton's response works too. You smell like crow skin. Oh my God. That's some sick burns. Yeah. I'm just leaving these up to you from now on, Rachel, because you're clearly good at it. Yeah, she's pretty good at it. Thanks, Rachel. Okay. Here is a call from Damien.

[00:57:44] Hey, Karen. Hey, Jason. You have no salutation here, you blighted snuff slave. It's the episode I know you've been waiting for. The one everybody adores. Season 2, Episode 8, Sweet Vitriol. I can totally understand why Not So Sweet Vitriol may have been directed at this episode when it came out. Ha ha ha. It followed an absolute masterpiece of emotion and visual storytelling in Chick-Ey Bardo last week.

[00:58:13] And this is a very different beast. Just like the town of Salt's Neck. It's harsh, cold, and alienating. Especially if you're dying to get back to our main characters on the severance floor. And you know there's only two more episodes to go. To have two self-contained episodes in a row when things are at such a heightened point. There's a good term. Self-contained. A bit frustrating. Self-contained. Yeah.

[00:58:43] But let's go with it. So we've learned a lot of Lumen and Keir history in various fanciful, over-the-top ways during the show. Through O&D's paintings, the Compliance Handbook, and the Perpetuity Wing. But now we see the harsh reality of what happens when Lumen uses people and places. It's not pretty. We did learn a lot of things.

[00:59:13] Not least that Harmony Cobell invented the severance procedure. So was Lumen just your everyday ether manufacturer turned wellness brand before that? I think so. We don't know much about what they actually do. They did selves. They've always struck me as kind of a culty mishmash of Kirkland and Goofy. You know, come to think of it, they did selves, which is another thing that takes away pain, I think. Yes. So it's always been about that. Yep.

[00:59:42] Did they have plans for world domination before severance was invented? They were just going the long route? We also learned about child labor practices and the fact Cobell used to work 10-hour shifts manning the vat. At the ether factory as an eight-year-old. Yikes. Mrs. Wong has it easy by comparison.

[01:00:06] These last two episodes kind of felt like a zooming out to see the full breadth of the world in severance. So when we finally return to our heroes next week, we've got a better knowledge of the stakes and the context. It kind of reminded me of the feeling I had in The Truman Show, one of my favorite films. Yeah, great movie. When the camera pulls out and reveals the whole town is in a giant dome.

[01:00:34] If there's like a Venn diagram between all the tones of the show, then this episode is as far in the creepy, harsh, tragic drama circle as possible. If I had to wait a week between episodes, I might be a little bit disappointed. But when you're binging it, I don't think it's too egregious. We're not binging it. We're waiting a week. You might think I'm higher than a bearded vulture saying that. I do.

[01:01:02] That's my stand and I'm sticking to it. Now back off or I'll put you in the bay. You smell like crow skin. You needed subtitles for some of the absolute zingers of dialogue this week. Anyway, cheers you two. I can't wait for the last two episodes. I may have watched them. Yeah, I did watch them. But I'll watch them again. Some of us are binging. Don't worry.

[01:01:32] Anyway, bye. Bye. Thanks, Damien. Damien. Damien. Self-contained episode. We knew that Damien would come up with the right language. Yeah. And we can rely on Damien and Rachel to pick the best lines, too. Yes. That's good. 100%. All right. Here's a call from Steve Brown. Hello, Jason and Karen. This is Steve, and this is going to be for Severance Season 2, Episode 8, Sweet Vitriol.

[01:02:00] Remember, this is the Harmony. I don't think I really like this episode very much. So she's arriving at Salt's Neck. She is very aggressively brushing her teeth. It seems like they either recognize her or something, because she just said, meet me at the factory, and obviously he knows what that means. The diner guy, I mean, is she driving a white rabbit? Oh, and now she's hiding in the back of his truck to go to Sissy's. Catch who was on the phone there. Was that Devin calling her?

[01:02:28] So this is Sissy, which is this Harmony's sister, or is that just her name is Sissy? Okay, so she just asked for the key to mother's room, so they must be sisters. Oh, so Harmony was a wintertime fellowship child also. It's a very strange episode. So now she's crying, and we just transitioned back to where we're looking at the water now. Interesting. So Harmony's mother hated Lumen, and whoever this guy is. Okay, so what drug did he just put on a cloth and ask her if she wants to get high? I don't know. Ether. I forget what she's looking for. I don't know. Her notes. Oh, okay.

[01:02:58] So something hidden in the, was that Kier in the bus? I don't know. Oh. I think so. She's claiming she designed the chip, maybe? All of it. All of it. Did she throw the book in the fire, or did Harmony get it back out and tell if Harmony's still carrying it or not? She's still got the book in her hand. Okay, so she's going to take the truck and leave Hampton just standing there? Yep. So it was Devin on the phone. Is it Devin Scout? I guess she doesn't have, she didn't take Rickon's last name? And that's the end, I guess. So this, I didn't see how short this one was, but it seemed pretty short. Okay.

[01:03:28] I guess next time, episode eight. My guess is that Devin would have happily taken Rickon's last name, but he would not have it. Because you're the you, you are. I like that Steve was jamming to something in the background when he called. Yeah. It makes it cooler, Steve. Yeah. Thanks for calling. Okay. We had a couple messages that came in a little late for last week's episode.

[01:03:58] All right. This one comes from Linda who writes, Hi, Jason and Karen. I've been waiting for Karen to do a deep dive into creepy Dr. Maurer and the actor who played him. At first I thought I recognized him, but when he spoke, I knew that soft and creepy breathy voice was child actor Robbie Benson. I lost my mind. I had Tiger beat magazines with his face all over them. Ah! Back in the seventies, he was the voice of the beast in beauty and the beast.

[01:04:26] Benson went on to be behind the camera directing and producing. He was also married to the gal who did the duet with meatloaf paradise by the dashboard light. Wow. That's crazy. I'm not sure, but I think Ben Stiller had a lot to do with casting Benson. Such a Stiller move. Yeah, it is actually. I was so glad to hear you guys were podcasting on Severance, one of my favorite shows. But someday, Widow's Bay! So good. Thanks for all you do. You guys are awesome. That is lovely. Thanks.

[01:04:56] Maybe we should commit to doing Widow's Bay if they get renewed for season two. Yeah, that might be a good idea. And then we can do a catch-up episode beforehand or something like that. Yes! Yes, it's been amazing. People, go ahead and watch it. Yeah. If I didn't make that clear already. Yeah, that's great. So, oh, she also said he starred in 70s movies Ice Castles and One on One. Oh, I missed that. Sorry. It's okay.

[01:05:27] When you look at him younger, I absolutely remember him, but I don't remember seeing him in anything. Dreamy. I'm sure I must have seen him in something, yeah. Dreamy. But I remember him as that deep beast voice in Beauty and the Beast. Elena says, I don't think I've ever seen a more extravagantly gorgeous filmed hour of television in my life. Arresting, sublime, perfect.

[01:05:51] How Mark's and Gemma's relationship was so fully realized in a brief period, capturing the vicissitudes of love from first meeting to the heady early days, to the joys of impending parenthood, the devastation of losing that dream and the impact it can have on the couple. To the settling into the comfort of a loving, mature partnership. All this interspersed with present-day lumen evil doing was jaw dropping. When the episode ended, I was aware of taking a breath.

[01:06:18] It felt as though I hadn't breathed for the entire hour. Wow. Great description, Elena. It threw me for a minute because I forgot we were talking about last week's episode. I was like, really? Newfoundland. Okay. And Robbie Benson. That was a surprise. Haven't thought about or seen him since his boyish heartthrob days. I found him creepy then, and man, that creepiness was ramped up to 11. What a stroke of casting genius. What's with what appears to be a doppelganger crew of our favorites in the Upside Down?

[01:06:48] This show becomes more intriguing with each watch, and I'm so happy to be on this ride after having missed it upon its original airing. Thanks, as always, for the discussion you provoke. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about this episode. Oh, and I so want to be Devin's friend. Oh, God, we all do. Me too, yeah. Devin's the coolest. What if we met that actor and she was nothing like Devin? That would be heartbreaking. She's just like Devin. She's just like Harmony Cobell. Harmony's pretty cool, too.

[01:07:17] I know she might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I would love to hang out with her. She's so weird. She would insult you, probably. She would, and I'm here for it. All right, that's our show. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Thanks, everybody.

[01:07:47] Next episode of Severance Season 2, Episode 9, The After Hours, with special guest Eric Nordhoff co-hosting with me. Yay! If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can send it to waffleparty at podcastica.com. And if you decide to go to podcastica.com, please check out our other shows. One I'm particularly proud of is our coverage of The Testaments this season, the Handmaid's Tale spinoff or sequel.

[01:08:16] We had so much engagement on there. We got like tons of downloads and engagement. And we just had an interview with the showrunner, Bruce Miller, who's this fantastic guy. He's so cool and just so enthusiastic and willing to answer questions. Like I'd ask him questions that I didn't think he was going to answer. Like I said, why were there no handmaids this season? And he totally gave me an answer. So that was really cool. Oh my God, that's fantastic. So I recommend checking that out. Dang.

[01:08:46] I know that I'm doing it all wrong because I'm waiting for the, I'm waiting to get Hulu and watch it all at one time. But I shouldn't. I should just go on and jump on now and then catch up. No, it's over. So you could do it now if you want to. 10 episode first season. The last one aired last week, I think. All right. I'm going to get your podcast and listen to it as a companion. Yeah. You should dip in. I mean, you don't have to listen to the whole thing, but I think you'd dig that interview especially.

[01:09:16] Oh yeah. It's really fun. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. You want to get high?

[01:09:51] From artificial intelligence to the gig economy to global volatility, the economy is changing at a dizzying pace. Enter the Managing the Future of Work podcast, the chart-topping and critically acclaimed podcast from Harvard Business School, hosted by me, Bill Kerr, and by Managing the Future of Work project co-chair, Joe Fuller.

[01:10:13] This show explores technology trends, demographic changes, the rise of the care economy, and many other forces transforming the landscape of work. We'll highlight the insights of business leaders, technologists, and experts like Business Roundtable's Kristen Silberg on corporate workforce strategy, and Khan Academy founder Sal Khan on AI, education, and the future of work.

[01:10:38] With more than 2.5 million downloads and close to 300 episodes, there is something for everyone. Follow HBS Managing the Future of Work on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. Have you ever wondered why Reese Witherspoon founded Hello Sunshine, or where Kevin O'Leary got his start?

[01:11:02] Or even how Alex Earle became the most accessible founder to someone who may not even consider this space? Enter the Founder Mindset, a new podcast from Harvard Business School Foundry, hosted by me, Reza Satchu. As a leading educator in entrepreneurship, I've built multiple high-profile companies and mentored thousands of students and founders through the realities of starting and scaling ventures.

[01:11:27] And with the Founder Mindset, I'm sharing those lessons with you by sitting down with world-class entrepreneurs, including Witherspoon, O'Leary, Anne Earle, plus Tim Ferriss, and many more, to break down exactly how they commit, decide, and build for impact. These aren't surface-level interviews. Each episode, I challenge my guests to revisit their toughest moments, their boldest decisions, and the mindset that carried them through. Follow the Founder Mindset wherever you get your podcasts.