703: "Knots Untie" (TWD S6E11 Rewatch)

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[00:01:01] Even more threats. And he killed one of us. Rory. He was 16 years old. He beat him to death. Right in front of us. Said we needed to understand. Right off the bat. Rory's not exactly good at confrontation. He's not the leader I would have chosen, but he helped make this place what it is, and the people like him. He made the deal.

[00:01:31] Half of everything. Our supplies, our crops, our livestock. It goes to the saviors. And what do you get in return? They don't attack this place. They don't kill us.

[00:02:17] Hey, Zed Heads. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And I'm Rachel. Rachel. And this is The Walking Dead cast episode 703. And this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead season six, episode 11, Knots Untie. Welcome back, Rachel. Thank you. Thanks for having me. You, yeah, that's right. You were on before. So this is the first time Lucy and Rachel are meeting you. Rachel was on before, but Lucy wasn't on that one. What was the one you were on before?

[00:02:47] Uh, I Ain't a Judas from season three at the prison. Okay. Um, it's like a kind of not the one where Andrea goes to the prison to try to tell them to like make peace with the governor. Right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. That gem. Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I, I really, I looked at her differently after this rewatch. I don't think anybody else did though. I tried. Yes.

[00:03:13] I vehemently disagreed with you, which is unusual, but yeah. It's fine. All right. Well, let's get into this episode here. Walking Dead season six, episode 11, Knots Untie. Uh, Rachel, would you like to read the plot summary? Sure. Rick's group travels to the hilltop with Jesus to trade and alleviate Alexandria's food shortage. Talks are interrupted when a hilltop resident attempts to assassinate hilltops leader Gregory on Negan's orders.

[00:03:40] Jesus explains that Negan's people have been extorting food, medicine, and supplies from the hilltop under the threat of an attack. Maggie makes a deal with Gregory to kill Negan, take out the saviors, and return a hilltop hostage in exchange for half of their supplies. It sounds like Maggie's going to be doing all of it. Yep. She's a badass. She's a badass. I mean, yeah. Um, so Rachel, you asked for this one.

[00:04:08] What was it about this one that made you want to do it? Um, I think of this as the first episode that is the start of the next chapter for them. That sort of, well, it can be encapsulated in Jesus' one line where he leans back and says, your world's about to get a whole lot bigger. Whatever he says.

[00:04:32] Like, that's, uh, plus there's a couple very classic moments with Abraham, Rick, um. We do this thing on the Severance podcast for fun where we pick a line and tell the listeners to just say it to somebody and see what they'll say in response. And if we were doing it for this episode, that would be the line. Just look at somebody and say, your world's about to get a lot bigger and then report back and tell us what they say. And then vanish. Yeah.

[00:05:01] Jump on the roof like a ninja. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. That's cool. I mean, you could say last week was sort of that, but maybe it was just more of a transitional episode in between. Yeah. I kind of think of it as like a lighthearted sort of like intermission. Take a breath. Yeah. All right. Well, Lucy, how is it for you to watch this one? Do you like this episode? Do you hate it? No, I do like it. Um, I'd forgotten a bunch of stuff that happens.

[00:05:31] Um, it made me really want to go back and read the comics. I've been doing some comics sort of perusing today because there's a lot of stuff that, um, kind of comes up in this episode that either sticks very close to or deviates from the comics. Um, in kind of interesting ways, but no, I loved it. And, and I'd forgotten like before there was Lance Hornsby, there was Harlan Carson. Horny for Harlan. Like he's great. I love him. I'd forgotten how much I was like, Oh, hi.

[00:06:00] As soon as he's, yeah. It's like, uh, your doctor. Yes. I'm like doomed. I know you're a doctor. Don't say that. You're going to want to keep that to yourself. Yeah. Or like, why does Yumiko's brother say that he's just like a cake maker? And I'm like, Oh, this is why, because you're immediately doomed to death if you're a doctor. I forgot about that. Um, but no, it's good. I loved seeing Hilltop kind of unveiled for everyone and integrating that into the storyline.

[00:06:29] It just felt really cool to, to see it happen again. Mm hmm. That's interesting that you went to the comics too. Cause I, so I only got as far in the comics as them, uh, leaving the prison after the fall of the prison. Um, but this episode. Issue. Yeah. Um, I have, I mean, I keep meaning to go back. I will eventually. Uh, but I was so curious because they make a really big deal of showing Hilltop.

[00:06:58] So I was like, okay, like who is Gregory in the comics? Like what, who is Jesus in the comics? So I just like Googled a bunch of stuff about the comics out of sheer curiosity. Yeah. I mean, Gregory is another character and Jesus, uh, pretty much that are pretty comic accurate. Gregory especially. Yeah. It seemed like it from. Douchebag. At least from photo. Yeah. And the description. Oh yeah. I think my, like my takeaway from like re visiting that today is I've always maintained

[00:07:28] on the pod that, um, the show fucked up a bit by having Rick's group do the outpost killings because in the comics they, they didn't do that. But I'd forgotten that one of the reasons Negan does the lineup in the comics is because they kill a bunch of saviors on the road. Hmm. So I'm like, oh, it's not as, it's not as black and white as I thought it was in the books. It's definitely like it's self defense rather than murdering them in their sleep.

[00:07:54] But yeah, it was interesting to go back and realize that, yeah, actually there was blood spilled before, um, some of these things happened in the comics too. It is black and white though. It's totally black and white. Yeah. The comics aren't color. So, um, I like that this episode firmly establishes what a piece of shit Negan is. I mean, you kind of already got the idea before, but here, like when I've argued with

[00:08:22] listeners back in the day who stand up for him, I've come back to this episode for ammo sort of like when they say, oh, but he's kind to children. I'm like, well, he sent the saviors to terrorize this group and they beat a 16 year old kid to death, you know? I mean, maybe Negan wasn't there. We don't really know for sure, but if he's fostering this kind of environment where 16 year olds get beaten to death, then that sort of comes back on him, you know? I would say. Yep. That's on him.

[00:08:52] Uh, I also, I think, and I've, I think I've always said this, that Gregory is a great character. He's a total piece of shit. Absolutely. Those are two different things, you know, like as a person, not good. As a character, I think he's a great addition to the story. It's fun to watch him. And honestly, I think I didn't, I don't know if I've ever fully consciously realized this, but probably I bet you the reason why the writers even brought him in, this probably

[00:09:22] works in the comic too. I don't know, but is that he really helps, uh, Maggie catalyze into the leader that she becomes having to deal with him forges her into this leader, you know? Yeah. I mean, she probably would have been anyway, but it's a good sort of testing ground for her to show her stuff. Right. He plays a very, um, type of man that you get in real life as well. Like the way he is with Maggie.

[00:09:47] Like I was like, you could just transpose the scene into like an office in day to day stuff. Like there's so much about it where I'm like, yeah, I know people like that. Well, I don't, thankfully I don't know. I don't work with people like that, but you know, you, you encounter them and you go, Oh yeah. Yep. Maybe a little too real for some people, which I could totally understand. Uh, he was like, I don't want to watch a zombie show and see the asshole from the office. Yeah. So, uh, let's get into our points, Rachel.

[00:10:16] Um, okay. Well, I'm going to start with the cold open, but my favorite part of it, the Jesus scene, because I feel like the Abraham Sasha thing is part of a larger other point that we'll get to. And that the Jesus part of the cold open is one of the scenes that for some reason just sticks in my memory from this show. Um, and I totally forgot that there was more to the cold open than that.

[00:10:46] So, so Carl shows up, Cox's gun points it at Jesus and says, what the hell are you doing in our house? And Jesus very calmly says, sitting on the steps, looking at this painting, waiting for your mom and dad to get dressed. And there's like, yeah, this like reaction of not like a big reaction, but a big reaction, a very like noticeable change in his facial expression. That is of course hilarious.

[00:11:16] And then because everybody saw or yeah, Glenn and Maggie saw Denise running out, like everybody comes running up the stairs as Rick and Michonne are coming out of the bedroom, like still getting dressed. Um, everybody rushes up the stairs with their guns pointed at Jesus and notices Rick and Michonne, like half dressed coming out of the bedroom.

[00:11:43] Uh, like looks of confusion on their faces, which just tickles me. And, um, It's a fun way to, for everyone to find out. To find out immediately. Yeah. No, like discussion of if they need to hide it or how do we go about this? It's just like, Nope, everybody immediately knows. Um, although it does kind of make me ask, like, what did they think was going on in that house?

[00:12:08] If it was literally just Rick and Michonne and the kids living there, like I probably would have assumed. Used to, well, I mean, he'd been with Jesse and I think they were living together. It's unnecessary, Jason. Sorry, sorry. Unnecessary. Um, but so, you know, I could see them just sort of getting used to it. Oh yeah. They're buddies. They were cops together. I don't know. Um, yeah.

[00:12:36] So next thing we know, we are sitting at the table. Jesus is the center of attention. Everybody's gathered around. And they're like, how did you escape? And he says, one guard can't cover two exits or third floor windows, knots untie and lots get picked. Entropy comes from order. And Daryl's like, yeah. Uh, it's like, yes, I do remember the laws of thermodynamics. Uh, yeah.

[00:13:06] So, and that made me actually, cause entropy comes from order. I am not like a physics person. I'm not a science person. So I had to look that up. So for anybody else, that's like, what is entropy? And what does he mean by that? Um, the law of entropy dictates, I'm reading this dictates that all isolated systems naturally progress from a state of order to a state of maximum disorder over time. Uh, entropy is a measure of disorder, randomness, or chaos within a system.

[00:13:33] It represents the natural tendency of things to move from an organized state to a messy, spread out or mixed up state. And outside of exact scientific equations, it kind of used to describe confusion, chaos, and the breakdown of organization. So that was a mouthful, but basically what I think he means by knots on tie, lots get picked, and why the episode is called knots on tie is because we are about to go from a state

[00:14:00] of organization, structure, calm, peace, to things being sort of blown wide open by the entrance of Gregory, Negan, um, all the other communities that we are about to encounter. So mostly Negan thoughts on that. Yeah, no, I was wondering if that was a stretch, but I'm glad you're saying it too, that I think that's the main thing is, and they really start to experience it when they get to Hilltop

[00:14:29] and the people come back and you learn about what's been going on. And, but this is, you're right. It's just a beginning of the knot untying really. Mm. Mm. Um, yeah. So, uh, Jesus then continues to note that he hasn't seen it. He hasn't seen an arsenal like Alexandria's in a long time. He's clearly been around the neighborhood. He estimates 54 people exactly. And Maggie's like more than that.

[00:14:57] Um, and Jesus shoots her a look that I couldn't quite read. I think it was like, who are you? I think I'm going to like you. Um, I thought, well, I mean, I don't know, but maybe I think Maggie, I don't know if I can take her at, uh, I think she may be lying just to sort of not let him feel like he's so smart or even like not let him know. You don't know. No. Yeah. Like that.

[00:15:23] And then he's pegging them and just maybe her wanting him to think we're more formidable, formidable than you actually think, even though maybe they're not stuff like that. Yeah. What's in there, but it felt like a lot in there. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And he's like, I don't know. I'm really good at counting people. I think I nailed it. I've been counting since I was four. So, uh, yeah. So he kind of goes on to say, we got off to a bad start, but we're on the same side.

[00:15:52] Um, he notes that Rick and Daryl could have left him out there, but it didn't. So he's reading them as good people. He knows that he comes from a good community of good people. And, um, he presents his idea that their communities can help each other. Um, tells them a little bit about the hilltop. They have livestock. We scavenge, we grow everything from tomatoes to fricking sorghum, of course. Um, um, prized.

[00:16:22] And, uh, and yeah, Rick is like the cockiness in his, I mean, there's his absolute attitude of tell us why we should believe you just throws it out there. Cox's head. Like he's, it's kind of unbearable in that moment. Um, just that, I don't know why that one line just really annoys me with Rick, but throws his hand up. Like, tell us.

[00:16:50] I mean, for me, I just, I get it. He tried to steal from them. Right. So he's, it's on him to prove that he's trustworthy now. It is. And I totally understand why he said that. It was just the way he said it. The way he said it. But, um, Jesus is like, I'll show you. Take a car, come home and we can make it back in a day.

[00:17:13] And, uh, and then the line of, we're looking for more settlements and Maggie like kind of zones in on that. And it's like, uh, more settlements. What do you mean by that? And then we get my favorite line. Your world's about to get a whole lot bigger. So. But I mean, when you think about it, he just means, yeah, we trade with a group called the kingdom. There's two, there's two other communities, but. And the same, you know, attacking us.

[00:17:43] Yeah. Which is super shady, but I can save my opinions on that for later. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that was, I just wanted to cover that because it's such a, I love how it paints Jesus too, because he's calm, he's collected, he's kind, he's observant. Like we learn a lot about Jesus, about who he is, about his capabilities. Um, and he's open about, well, as far as we know, open about his home too. So.

[00:18:12] I, I mean, I viewed this differently this time than I did the first time I went back to check my notes just to make sure. And I think I was seduced by Tom Payne's, uh, just wonderful vibe. Right. His more, his like, he's so, uh, appealing in, in his, the way he's so certain, but also friendly and kind of a little cocky, but in a way that's kind of, you know, endearing. Yeah.

[00:18:41] But honestly, like he tells them come, come, we can help each other. We have food. He doesn't tell them what he wants from them. And to be fair, Rick doesn't really ask. He doesn't tell them that this group is attacking them. And I think he, he, I mean, the reason he's coming up with this is because he found out they had a bunch of weapons, right? And he knows that they're fighters. So I think he already has it in mind that maybe they can help him with the saviors, but doesn't tell him that otherwise, what does he want?

[00:19:11] And also he doesn't tell them that his group is led by a total douchebag. And he should have said, look, the guy who leads it, people like him for whatever reason, that's what he said later, but, um, he's hard to deal with. I mean, he says this stuff later after it's too late and just sort of here's the best way to talk about. So he should have really prepared them for all of that.

[00:19:36] And so I feel, and especially after he tried to steal this food truck and because of that interaction, it ended up in the lake and they're starving. So it's kind of his fault that they don't have the food that they need. Absolutely. And so I don't know, man, he's like not coming off so well in this episode to me when you really think about it, you know, I love that perspective, but. Yeah. Yeah. Like I love the guy, even the character.

[00:20:03] I, I really liked Tom Payne, but I liked Jesus, especially how he, um, I'll be watching now to make sure, but how he conducts himself after this. But in this episode, yeah, he's really withholding things that he shouldn't be. I think. So important. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So, Lucy, do you want to go on to something else or just. I know it's funny. I literally, before we came up on this call, I was finishing my notes and I turned to Peter and was like, did Jesus just play everyone?

[00:20:34] He was quite adamant. He was with you, Rachel. He's like, no, Jesus, no, nothing. He's just being an honest upfront guy. Yeah. But I don't know, maybe we're cynical. Maybe we're jaded. Cause I was like, he, what does he want from them? If not for them to solve the savior problem for them? Like there's a really cynical reading of that. That's like, and I'm not saying this is the right one. Cause I think it's, it's interesting writing that it's not clearly one or the other, but

[00:21:00] part of me is like, yeah, you just getting like the equivalent of like your big brother to come in and kick someone's ass for you because you can't do it. Like just giving him the benefit of the doubt, even if he is just like, you know what? It's good. We've had a great experience with the kingdom. It is good for groups to interact. We try to rebuild the world here. Um, and we'll figure out the details of how we can help each other later. I don't think that's the case, but giving him the benefit of the doubt, he still should

[00:21:26] tell them their situation with the saviors and with Gregory and every, everything else. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like they, our guys we know now are massively underestimating what is about to happen. Yeah. Um, does Jesus realize how much they're underestimating or is he overly optimistic about what they can do? Like, I don't know. Are they talking at cross purposes? Like they both think the other one is fully informed.

[00:21:52] So yeah, it's, it's really interesting to watch it again and just sort of think like, cause Jesus, Jesus is the catalyst here that, that fucks it for them. Like Maggie, you know, of all people, Maggie says it's going to come with a cost. Mm hmm. Yeah. In retrospect, it is hard to look and be like, right. Okay. This is, um, this is not good.

[00:22:17] It's interesting cause Rick has recently decided to become the kind of a person that will trust people again and welcome opportunities to bring new people in or interact. And that was first tested with Jesus where Daryl just didn't want to have anything to do with him, but Rick decided to bring him back and help him. And now because of that, you could, you know, say because of Rick's new renewed openness, they will have this relationship with the hilltop.

[00:22:46] And it really, that just little decision that he made their last episode, Rick to bring him back sets the course for the rest of the series and leads to the, I mean, you can't really blame Rick for this, but it's just interesting to think about like how turning points lead to different things and Glenn and Abraham dying and Maggie being the leader of the hilltop and all this stuff that happens after this. And Gregory being hanged. Yeah.

[00:23:13] But Jesus also, the one thing, so he notes that they have an arsenal. And so we're thinking like, oh yeah, like clearly they'll trade some weapons if they need them. And then at the hilltop he's like, well, guns aren't really a priority for us right now. And I'm like, in what world? What are you talking about? Like, doesn't really. I mean, maybe he's just like totally duplicit. He is a guy that calls himself Jesus. Maybe he's exactly like Gregory. I mean.

[00:23:42] And he's just more charming and is more of a psychopath. Who goes around dressed like Jesus and says, I'm Jesus. Holy shit. Is Jesus a psycho? Like, yeah. Jesus was the bad guy all along. Oh my God. Negan's like, you think I'm bad? Have you seen Jesus? It's like... Jesus is like, Ike. I mean, the best like cult leaders act just like Jesus. Yeah.

[00:24:11] They just, when you are around them, you're like, no, no, no, no. He's a great guy. I don't care what you have to say. Right. Yeah. Right. Just spend some time with him and you'll know. Yeah. It was interesting listening to you both talk it out because I was like, oh yeah, I kind of see both sides of this, but definitely on my secondary watch there, I was just thinking about how things unfold and I was like, damn.

[00:24:32] Jesus really like, I guess my most, my most gray area interpretation is he saw their arsenal and thought, well, that's a good balance for our food supplies and we can use it to our advantage. But he says a few times in this episode that they're shit at fighting. So again, I'm like, what would you expect to happen? We're like hit over the head with that. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, we're, we're all terrible. Oh my God. It's a miracle. Any of us are alive.

[00:25:02] My most charitable like interpretation of it all is he, they're in trouble. They're being terrorized by this group. Jesus's group is, and he knows he needs help. So he's like, okay, this group maybe can help us. And he's just trying to do what he can to get them to come and help. And he's afraid if he spells out the whole picture, they might just say, no, we don't want to get involved with that. Yeah. That sounds messy. Yeah. No, thank you. That sounds like a you bro.

[00:25:32] He got me, man. Yeah. Well, I don't know, Rachel, because like, I, I think your reading is valid too. Like I'm like, I'm literally sitting going, am I cynical? Like, I think I might be cynical. Like it's, um, yeah, it's just, I don't know. It's complex, isn't it? People are complex. The situation is complex, but yeah, there was part of me that was like, I don't know what did Ethan turn up when he did, would it have all come out? Well, he even says. That was my note.

[00:26:01] Like if they hadn't shown up, would he even have told them? Right. Right. He even says like, you know, I, uh, we're all, like you said, Rachel, he says, you know, we're, we're on the same side, we're living. And I'm like, that's, I wish everybody in the zombie apocalypse realized that the zombies are the enemy and the people should work together. But then he's like, I thought you guys were trouble. That's why I stole from you, but I was wrong. And I'm like, why did you think they look like trouble? Because like, we just sort of let that go.

[00:26:29] Like, what do you mean that you just go around thinking those guys look like trouble. I'm going to steal from them and it's okay. Oh my God. Now that we're breaking this down, my world is shattering. I love that. Jesus is rude, man. He was rude. Y'all look scanky, but I realize now that you're not. So well done. I won't steal from you anymore. Daryl, when was the last time you showered? Yeah, no, ew. He's just like, Gregory, you clean yourself up and then we can talk.

[00:27:00] Yeah. He's like, when they've left the room, he's like, Gregory, I'm so glad you told them to go and clean up. He was like, just got them all my life. Like he was so dirty before I stole his food truck. Yeah, he's like, I've just seen them earlier. It was so gross. Thank God for you, Gregory. Oh, that's a deleted scene. They should shout out. Like Jesus when nobody else is around, how he talks to Gregory. He's like, I just think you're great, man. I just think you're really swell. And he's like, I love you, Jesus. And Jesus is like, I love you, Gregory. They talk about their trimmed beards and like... Yeah. They swap hair care tips.

[00:27:30] You know, this is a wig. That I'm wearing right now. My hair is actually usually cut. Yeah, Jesus is like, oh, the other rooms are, they're made into living spaces. Nah, it's just Jesus and Gregory living up there. Everyone else has to live in a caravan. He's like... They're in the FEMA trailers outside. The trailers. It's only for people who are really, really good looking. You're like, oh, yuck. Harlan can obviously stay there. Lucy, what do you want to talk about? I'm just going to talk about how good looking Harlan is. No. So actually, I was thinking about Jesus, which was cool.

[00:27:59] But that really comprehensively covered it. I guess, talk a little about Abraham, who... Damn it. Michael Cudlitz is so good at playing this role. Like, I think the work he does as Abraham is really strong. But I can't condone what he's doing, which is sort of living with Rosita and leading her on when he actually wants to be with Sasha. And that's really hard. So we see a couple of things from Abraham in this episode.

[00:28:24] He's telling Sasha some story about his time in the army, when a camel ate some keys and pooped them out. But we see this chemistry he has with Sasha and the two of them see a group of kids playing around. And he's really fixated on this idea of Maggie having a pup. Like this idea of Maggie being pregnant. And this is a big shift for him of like, oh, other people are putting down roots. Like this could be it. And I guess I sympathize a bit with him insofar as like, they've been running and running and now they're settled.

[00:28:54] And there's probably truth to what he says to Rosita about, I thought you were the last woman on earth and you're not. And he lost his wife. And after that, I think he's thought, oh, forget that's gone. The whole family thing. I'm just going to be reckless and kill and enjoy my adrenaline. Yeah, but they cut it in with this like lovely scene with Rosita where she just looks so beautiful and sweet and is so kind to him. Oh my gosh. Yeah. She made him, she says your neck looks a little lonely. He says she's down near perfection.

[00:29:22] And she's like very sexually assertive, which is cool to see from women on TV. And it's just a very like nice scene between the two of them. But it's interspersed with him. It's so steamy. I was like, oh my God. Yeah. Christian Serratos is like all like hair like mama. It's very. They're sweaty. There's like sweat stains on their sheets. Yeah. And then Abraham's sitting there like, oh, remember that time I hung out with Sasha and told her about the camel poop thing? And I'm like, oh.

[00:29:51] Pillow talk is also about Eugene, which I thought was hilarious. That feels really in character for them. He's like their weird kid. Yeah. If he's not there watching them have sex, then they have to at least talk about him. Right. Right. It just feels wrong without him, you know? So Abraham, obviously this is the iconic episode of when you were pouring the bisquick. Yeah. Where you intended to make pancakes. Love euphemistic chat about contraception.

[00:30:20] It's good to know that Abraham wears galoshes. That scene. Doubles up. Doubles up. Oh my God. That scene hits different when you know that Abraham and Glen are both going to die so soon. Like it's so weird watching the two of them talk like that. And I'm like, oh, this is so irrelevant. They're talking about their future too, really. I mean, the baby is all about just caring about the future. Yeah. Yeah. And it's different attitudes and appetites for risk really, isn't it? Yeah.

[00:30:49] And then we set up earlier in the episode, one of the hilltop folks, Freddie, talks about what he saw before he died. And he says, you know, I saw my wife clear as day and you can see Abraham really thinking about that. And then later when Abraham is being choked, he hears Sasha's voice and thinks about Sasha and that that's a big shift for him. He also like, I always love, like there were two Daryl moments that don't really deserve their own point.

[00:31:15] But I just really loved this episode when we're still in the era of Daryl being quite asexual, which is Abraham asking Daryl about Rick and his own hugging Bump plays. And Daryl is like, he wants to die. He's like, oh, he's like, he just opts to go like, you think shit's settled. And then later in the RV when they're passing around the ultrasound photo, which I'm really bad at reacting to those. I said to Peter, I was like, oh, look, it's me when people hand me pictures of their children.

[00:31:41] And I'm just like, oh, they kind of pass it on to the next person. But I thought Daryl's reaction was quite cute. He was just like, okay, then pass it on to somebody else. But at that point as well, Abraham is really sees something in that ultrasound of like, there's a future here. And I know who I want that future to be with. And it's hard because I think Abraham is still quite likable in this episode. But I just and I don't think you should be with someone you don't want to be with out of not wanting to be a bad person.

[00:32:12] But it is hard to watch knowing how much we love Rosita and kind of what's going to come for the two of them and how it's going to fuck her up. Like it's it's hard. It's difficult. But all kudos to Michael Cudlitz. I'm really enjoying him on this this rewatch. Yeah, I like when he's kind of smiley. Yeah. I find that interesting.

[00:32:37] He's a very kind of goofy guy sometimes in a way that I think is nice. Yeah, he's one of my favorites. I thought yeah, this episode was him figuring out what he wants for his future. And he a couple episodes back with Sasha.

[00:32:57] He I think that was a turning point for him because she told him basically you're reckless and you're you're just you know, you don't think that you're you have a future, but you could. And he had decided, okay, I do have a future to live for and I want you to be a part of it. And he told her that. And then she said, you know, you got something that you need to take care of first. And who sends, you know, and she not on time. Yeah.

[00:33:27] And now we're two months away. I mean, she's pulling away from him here. She's like, I'm not doing patrols anymore. And I like the way that was sort of subtle, but I think it's clear that she's like, no, I'm not spending time with you anymore. And right. And I think she's pulled away from him because she said, well, you told me you wanted me. I told you you needed to take care of, you know, break up with Rosita basically. And you're still with her.

[00:33:55] You seem to have made your choice, but you're still flirting with me. No, that's not going to fly. So bye. And like, I don't, I also don't blame Abraham for falling for Sasha because you can't really control who you fall for. And he's not married and, but to sit in that for two months without doing anything about it and still wanting to spend time with Sasha while being with Rosita. That's where I judge him in this episode. Definitely. And he's wrestling with that the whole time.

[00:34:23] It's partly, I think it's for him. It's like, what do I want for my future? And he, he's for whatever reason, he sees Sasha as more of, this is the person I want to settle down and have a life and a, I think a family with. And then, um, the whole bisquick thing, you know, he's focused on Maggie being pregnant. And I like that mostly he's like, Oh wait, are you sure you want to do that? It doesn't seem like the right time.

[00:34:53] I always wear two condoms, but I think really he's like thinking maybe I want to have kids, you know, that's how people are trying to talk himself out of it because he's actually wanting it. And then, um, I just want to mention that people all probably know this, but after this episode, everybody started bringing bisquick to Michael Cudlitz at the conventions.

[00:35:16] He'd have boxes and boxes piled up next to his table and he would give it to, um, like food donation places in whatever city we were in every time. So that was really, really fun. It just kept reminding me of semen every time though. So I didn't like that part of it. As it should. That was the point. That was the point. But I, I just don't like thinking about semen. Sorry. Um, so weird. Anyway.

[00:35:42] Um, so then, um, you know, the, when they save some people from some zombies and this guy, Freddie, I think he was saying he was gonna, he thought he was gonna die and he pictured his wife who had died. And then the camera goes over to Abraham. So maybe he's thinking about his own wife and then just considering like, wow, life is fleeting. What do I want to do with my life? That's what I kind of thought when he was choked to like, he survived something and he's just like, I, you know, life is fleeting. What do I want to do?

[00:36:12] He gets up the necklace that she gave him is still on the ground. And I don't know, but it seemed like maybe they were saying he lost it, which was sort of symbolic, you know? Yeah, for sure. That's what I got from it. Yeah. He's just, he's like having his cake and eating it too, because yeah, he's spending time with the woman that he actually wants to be with and then not doing the difficult thing and still enjoying intimate moments with Rosita. So, and Sasha's like, what the fuck dude? Right.

[00:36:41] Like, yeah. And I think in part, he just can't really decide, but he needs to decide. It's not fair to these two women. Totally not fair. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I want to do my turn cause I've just been tacking onto your guys's things, but my, I want to talk about Gregory and Maggie. Yeah. Great. So Gregory is a skeezy piece of crap and I love his character and it's fun to see how our people deal with the guy like that.

[00:37:08] And Xander Berkeley, I think did such a good job playing a creep. Like he really understood the assignment. Yeah. Yes. And I think, um, it's almost impressive how much assholery Gregory can densely pack into a short amount of time. Yeah. Yeah. Go all the way through. Like he just gives bad vibes right away and never lets up saying I'm the boss. And then when Rick tries to enter us, introduce himself, interrupts and tells him to get cleaned up.

[00:37:37] And then I loved Rick response to that. He's like, you need to talk to him, Maggie. Why? I shouldn't. Yeah. That was so, I was like, Rick is self-aware. Michonne is good for him. And yet, and yet.

[00:37:53] And this is the beginning of Rick preparing Maggie for leadership. I love that impulse of like, Hey, Deanna said you're a leader and I agree with her. So let's get you in there right now. And she really takes you a while. She'll be leaving this very place later. That's kind of cool. He'll talk.

[00:38:09] Um, I just, I wanted to sort of list off some things that Gregory did to show his personality. He calls Maggie the wrong name twice. He gets way too close while talking to her. Awful.

[00:38:24] And she, I think in that moment, she's like, okay, I know, I know this guy. I know what exactly what he's about. And, and she hand the way, um, Lauren Cohan played it was so great. Cause she just kept her cool the whole time. She's like, I know what you're here for. I'm not even going to act mad. I'm just gonna deal with every little thing that comes up and stay focused.

[00:38:42] Um, let him underestimate me. Yes. And, uh, he takes credit for everything about Hilltop. Why it's a success. I'm good at this. He says, uh, instead of in, in dealing with her, like their dealings are actually sort of reasonable. Like it's okay to negotiate, you know, and figure out what your value is and the other person's and negotiate accordingly.

[00:39:05] But instead of saying, you know, all right, let's trade good for services. Cause we have goods and you guys can fight or whatever. He's like, you don't have shit. He comes out adversarial adversarially. Now I'm happy to help. I'm a nice guy, but we can't just give things away for free. How's this? Since you can't offer much, I'll let your people work for their share. Uh, he comes on to her creepily. Uh, yeah. Be a welcome addition to the community. A smart and beautiful woman.

[00:39:33] Oh boy. Um, calls her honey. Uh, then, um, says he doesn't know if it's worth their trouble to save their guy who's being held captive. Probably because I believe Gary, uh, Gregory deliberately went light on the drop to dig in without telling the guys he did that who were delivering it. Cause when they asked him, uh, he said the light, uh, the drop was

[00:39:56] light. Did you leave anything out? And he goes, no. Um, but at least the guy makes amazing eggs with green tomatoes. That was pretty funny too. Uh, that did me. I was like, you want those skills. Yeah. Then when Maggie proposes, they get rid of me in exchange for supplies at the end, he rubs it in the, uh, that's what I had already proposed instead of just gracefully accepting the deal.

[00:40:26] So just thing after thing. I'm like, I do find it, um, unbelievable that anyone there would like him or that he could have done anything good for that place that he could have somehow led it to whatever, you know, I don't get that. Is Jesus the actual leader? And part of his psychopathy is that he lets people think that Gregory is the leader and lets Gregory think that he's the leader. Meanwhile, Jesus is running the show.

[00:40:56] Right. Did you ever watch mash? You guys are probably too young for that show. Yeah. On that show. Who's sort of like second in command, but he's really the brains of the radar for people who know the show. So, um, anyways, um, by the end, Maggie agrees that her group will take care of Negan for him in exchange for half of what Hilltop has.

[00:41:20] And I wondered if she was actually pressing for more than she otherwise would just because Gregory was being such a dick about it, you know, or maybe she just think that's what's fair, but either way, she handled him well. And that was cool to see. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Cause Maggie, I mean, I can't remember have, cause you know, she, Maggie's one of those characters that really transforms in a cool way, in my opinion, over the course of the series.

[00:41:50] And, uh, I can't remember if we've already seen her sort of being a leader before this or is it starting right now? I'm not sure. This is kind of the beginning. I think it's starting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. I would say so. It's cool. All right. Rachel. Yeah. What a dick. Okay. Um, let's see. Yeah. Let's like the fight scene. Can we go over that?

[00:42:20] Yeah. Yeah. We kind of already started to with the Gregory point. So this guy comes rushing into Barrington House, which side note, do you guys have a Barrington House type place where you grew up, where like kids would go on field trips? Yes. Yes. And also I read a book. Um, I meant to mention this. Thank you for bringing up Rachel. Um, that I read a book. It came out a few years ago and I only actually read my copy recently called my Monticello by Jocelyn Nicole Johnson.

[00:42:50] And it is a book about, um, it's not quite post-apocalyptic and it sort of hits in a sort of situation where the, the people in the book are escaping basically kind of the end of civilization, like race, uh, race related riots, um, have spread across the country.

[00:43:11] And they are living in Virginia and they all retreat to and make shelter in Monticello, which is where, um, Jefferson, is that right? Sorry. American history is really bad. So it's kind of a reclaiming of that space by, um, by a black community. And it's a really good book. It's short. Um, and it really made me think of Hilltop. I hadn't put the two together when I was watching it the first time. What was it called? Yeah, it's called My Monticello. Uh, and it's, it's, it's a short, interesting one.

[00:43:41] If you like kind of post-apocalyptic, if you like Lovecraft country, it's not dissimilar to that, those kind of vibes as well. But yeah, Barrington House really made me think of that. I was like, oh yeah, this is what happens in My Monticello. So yeah, we, we definitely, I mean, in Scotland. Oh, you probably have a million places. We had castles. Silly question for Lucy. But to be honest, a castle is a lot less used in an apocalypse than a place with like proper shelter and stuff. Like our castles are all pretty old. Like, yeah.

[00:44:11] Yeah. Yeah. We have, uh, the Herkimer home. Shout out to the Herkimer home, uh, where I grew up in Herkimer, a revolutionary war hero, General Nicholas Herkimer. It's his house and it's like still his same house. You can go visit. And so, yeah, I'm just watching the Hilltop and thinking about the Herkimer home the entire time. Amazing. Yeah. Um, so. We've got a missions. That's the closest thing I can think of around in California. Oh, yeah. Things aren't that old here.

[00:44:40] Near, near you guys though, you've got the Winchester Mystery House. You could go and hang out there. That would be awesome. You'd get lost though. And it's probably haunted. Yeah, it'd be a good place to ditch zombies who like go upstairs and run into a wall or something. Yeah, there's like an open window that just like opens out into the air. So, yeah, it'd be great. Okay, so fight scene. Um, dude comes running into the house. They're back and everybody runs outside.

[00:45:08] And Gregory asks where Tim and Marsha are. Nathan says they're dead. Gregory asks if it was Negan and Nathan says, yep. And Gregory's like, we had a deal. That's when the, is the drop light? No. No. No. No. And they say they still have Craig. They said they'd keep him alive. Return him to us if I delivered a message to you.

[00:45:33] And he walks up to Gregory in what feels like the most obvious way that something's like really bad is about to happen. Yeah. Gregory's just like, well, you can tell me like what is it? Big swing into the gut. Yeah. Um, and our gang responds immediately. Literally no one from Hilltop except maybe Jesus is responding to this. Um, yeah. Rick tries to take down Nathan. Nathan absolutely loses his mind.

[00:46:03] Like, my brother. Yeah. Just screaming and flailing. Like. I think. Yeah. Cause later they said. Negan's not gonna, you know, accept anything unless we bring Gregory's head. So. Yeah. Maybe he thought he literally needed to kill Gregory and bring his head back or something like that. Or else his brother would be dead. Maybe that's why he's screaming at. Yeah. Like, like, Negan wants the head. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:32] That's affirmative. Yeah. Yeah. Um. Yeah. So, Nathan and Rick start fighting. Rick starts beating the shit out of him. As ever. Oh, exactly. Um. I had to look up the other guy's name. His name is Andy with the dark hair. Mm-hmm. Um. So, he joins in. Abraham tackles him. They start fighting. And then we have the whole Abraham has a come to Sasha moment. Hearing her voice. Um.

[00:46:59] But Daryl steps in and, like, seems to break Andy's arm. Although it's not broken. Yeah. So, I'm not really sure. That was, like, a really funny moment to me. He just bent it a little. But it didn't really break. I remember watching the guy in the background, like, for the rest of the fight. He's just, like, kind of tenderly holding his wrist and, like, screaming, like, no. Oh. I have a boo-boo. And you're like, we know. We know. Oh, my gosh.

[00:47:29] Nathan gets the upper hand over Rick and says, anyone who steps in is killing my brother. Um. And Michonne, of course, distracts him. Drop it. Uh. And Rick takes the opportunity to just shank the dude's jugular. Rick loves the jugular. He just absolutely loves it. Yeah. He was lucky I didn't bite it out. I guess it didn't really matter either. Yeah. I bet he was thinking that. I'd be pretty funny if he did bite it out. I was lucky. Thank God.

[00:47:59] It was just a knife. Yeah. Yeah. The amount of blood. Like, good Lord. It was. It was a bit. Parts of this episode were comic-y to me. And that was definitely one part. Just the gushing blood all over Rick's face. Just, like. Hilarious. Yes. Oh, gosh. I know it's not funny, but just. It took me out of the scene for a minute. Because I'm like, what is happening here? I mean, the best part is then what he looked like when he got up. Right. With blood all over his face. Dude. Stands up. Yes.

[00:48:28] Classic. Looks around. By the way, it looks around. And all of Hilltop is just standing around gawking at him. Like, the blacksmith is there just holding a spear. There's like this older couple. Nobody, by the way, who looks like they should have survived this long in the apocalypse. Everyone's just standing there like, what? Right. And he literally says, what?

[00:48:52] I mean, it's funny how Rick, yeah, it's sort of similar to the looks the Alexandrians were giving him when he was waving his gun around earlier. He tends to get himself in those situations where people are like, oh my God, what is this guy? He makes bold choices. Yeah. But do you know my story about that line? I've told it a couple times, but maybe people don't remember. Maybe, but I don't remember if I do. No.

[00:49:19] So, one panel at Walker Stalker pre-season six, I got to interview Andrew Lincoln. And I told him, like, you know, like, your lines are just quoted everywhere. We love saying stuff and the things. How does it feel to know that something that comes out of your mouth is just repeated everywhere? And he goes, oh, I got a new one coming up in the next season. You guys want to hear it? And we're like, yeah, yeah. And he goes, what?

[00:49:50] And I thought he was just bullshitting, like, okay, whatever, dude. And then it actually came up in the scene. And I'm like, oh my God, he was serious. Oh, that's amazing. You get the, like, Leonardo DiCaprio meme. You're, like, pointing at his head. Right, right. He said the thing. Oh my God, that's amazing. So, after the what, Andy's like, you killed my brother.

[00:50:17] And he just literally goes, well, he tried to kill Gregory, then me. He's just like, that's what happens. What do you want? What was I supposed to do, dumbass? It's a tragedy because the guy was under Negan's thumb and thought he had to kill Gregory to save his brother. And Rick didn't know any of that. And who knows if he would have acted any different anyway. And who knows what the fuck the right thing was to do in that situation. I don't know.

[00:50:44] But Jesus got in there and said, hey, this guy was a coward even though he's our friend. So, that was what needed to be said, I guess. Yeah. The look on Michonne's face, too. I forgot to mention, like, her eyes just like, it's not like a what the fuck just happened. It's not like she's surprised. She's just like, oh shit, now what? When he, like, stabs. When he stabs the guy. Right. This is bad. Yeah. And then she freaking clothesline. That girl walks up and punches Rick in the face.

[00:51:14] I want to know who that actor is because, like, what a fun job. Dude, yeah. And then Michelle just has a latin, sir. She's just like, hell no. You're like, nope. And that's tragic, too, because she just probably killed, Rick killed this girl's husband, could be. Yeah. Who knows? Right. And then she got floored by Michonne. Yeah. Yeah. So then people start reacting. The guys walk up with their spears. Drop it now.

[00:51:41] Like, as if anybody in our group is going to be kind of shaken in their shoes with, like, little spears from their homemade spears from the blacksmith. Yeah. Yeah. Jesus steps in and Rick is like, what can I do? And Jesus is like, put the gun down now, maybe. Could be a good idea. Could help. Maybe you've done enough. Yeah. And then he goes, you need to know things aren't as simple as they might seem.

[00:52:10] And I'm like, you could have said that a while back. This is the thing. This is the part. Yes. Where I was like, was he just not going to tell them if this didn't happen? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, quite the series of events. And then of course, cut to the next scene of Maggie looking out the window at the woman grieving over her dead husband. Oh, horrible flash. Foreshadow maxing. Yeah. Totally.

[00:52:39] One thing just before that, the guy from that was off. Well, the crew returned from their mission to deliver supplies to Negan. And Jesus was telling Rick, cause, uh, Gregory had turned down Maggie's first deal. And Jesus was telling Rick, he just wants the best deal possible. And I'll talk to him.

[00:53:04] And Rick goes, I didn't even hear this before when, when I watched this, but this was the first time I heard it. He goes, we need food. We came all this way. We're going to get it. And I wonder if he's saying, we're going to take it by force if we have to. And I'm like, that's what Negan does. Yeah. I never noticed that before. Yeah. I heard that too, this time. I'm like, Ooh. Ooh. Cause you know, he's capable. Yeah.

[00:53:34] We're going to get it. He's so fricking cocky. And they're like, okay, hold on, Rick. Let's try diplomacy. We don't need to shrink anybody, Rick. Come on. Right. Yeah. All right. What do you got, Lucy? What have I got? Um, we got some backstory to Hilltop, I guess. That was quite interesting for talking about Barrington houses. Yeah. They were able to build the walls because there was material for a building company left nearby.

[00:54:01] The trailers are from a FEMA camp, which is where a lot of the, um, residents come from. Um, it's, it's very well preserved compared to how we see it in later seasons, which is quite interesting to consider. Now I kind of wanted to go and look at what Hilltop looked like in season 10, um, and do a sort of side by side, but I didn't quite manage to. It ends up getting burned down by the whispers. Yeah. Oh, fuck. I forgot. It exists again by the finale, right?

[00:54:32] Does it in some form? I can't remember. Cause I feel like there's a shot of them there. Yeah. I don't know. We'll have to do Hilltop watch. Um, I feel like it's just obliterated, but I could be wrong. Yeah. I guess. I know when Aaron goes back and he's, that's the scene where he's like torturing this whisperer and shoves a zombie head at him and it bites the whisperer. That's a, like a charred Hilltop, if I remember right. Like a burnt up Hilltop.

[00:55:00] Um, I guess we meet some of the people there as well. The ones that really stand out are Dr. Carlson cause he's super hot, but also because he's an obstetrician, which for Maggie and Glenn is a bit of a gift, but also kind of another factor that leads to the lineup is they're trying to get Maggie to Harlan Carlson for, um, because she's having a placental abruption. If I remember something, something very painful is happening.

[00:55:28] Um, we also meet in, in the comics, I believe she's called Brianna. I can't remember if that's what she's called in the show, but the woman who does the majority of kind of nannying for Maggie and future seasons, she's one of the groups that they save on the road. Um, and yeah, we just get slices of life at Hilltop. We see, you know, there's a blacksmith, there's things like, you know, there's a sense of richness there in terms of like material goods that you don't have Alexandria.

[00:55:56] I don't necessarily material goods. I mean, more like agricultural, um, capital. Um, but also the lushness of the big mansion that they're not used to and yeah, it was inside and everything. I thought it was interesting that it, it attracts different people for different reasons. So like Maggie and Glenn want to move to Hilltop. I think in the comics, certainly that's where they want to settle in the show. I don't know if it's ever said explicitly, but it's almost like they're, they're real estate shopping at this point.

[00:56:25] And Daryl gets, this is another thing that shocked me is Daryl gets so excited about the idea of kicking Negan's group's ass. Yeah. He's the one who proposes it. I forgot that. I thought it was really cool. I was like, oh shit. Yeah. No wonder he goes really quiet after the lineup, but he must be feeling particularly guilty about everything. Um, but the thing that really made me laugh is when he said the boogeyman, he ain't shit, but then he's listing all the things he wants. And then he goes, I'm one of them cows. And I was like, yes, Daryl. One of them cows.

[00:56:53] For some reason, I just pictured what if they'd started the story in Medias Res with Daryl in the lineup about, you know, with Negan and his bat. And then you hear his voiceover, I suppose you're wondering how I got here. And then you go back to Hilltop and he's like, we should go. We're going to kick their asses, the boogeyman, he ain't shit, I want a cow. And it's like, well, that is dumb. It just made me laugh because I don't picture Daryl as being maybe the most like agricultural child, but he was very excited about the cows.

[00:57:23] So all of that really was just a little puff piece for Hilltop. But yeah, other than that, I think we pretty much covered most of my point. So it's the first Hilltop, which is significant. And, um, it made me sort of run through what comes up in my head. I think about Maggie hanging Gregory. I think about Alden, the savior being held there before defecting. Oh shit. Yeah.

[00:57:49] Of Daryl hiding in the cellar, I think to avoid the saviors or something. Yeah. Maggie having heart to heart. Of Lance Hornsby going there and questioning Maggie about the people that Gabriel Aaron killed. And bringing a whole force of people. I think one of whom was Daryl in their Commonwealth uniforms. Yeah. Of the whispers burning it down of the whole thing I mentioned with Aaron torturing that one whisper there. Those are the main things. I'm sure there's a lot there. Absolutely.

[00:58:19] There's a ton more than I'm not remembering. But, um, I also, I looked it up. I don't think I knew this before then, but the house, the Barrington house is actually an entirely fictional TV set built from scratch on the back lot of rally studios. Same studio place where the prison set was, the savory compound, Jadis's junkyard heaps were there. The house is just a facade and inside was filmed on an indoor soundstage too. And now it's all completely gone, I guess.

[00:58:50] Yeah. Yeah. I always thought that was a real place, but nope. It looks brilliant. Yeah. Good job. Yeah. I did know it was fake. And so I found myself like looking at it in the background and scenes this time. Like, can you even tell? I mean, it's amazing what they can do. No, right. Not, no, no, definitely not. All right. I want to talk. It's my turn, right? I want to talk about, uh, I don't have much either.

[00:59:18] Uh, we, we should maybe talk a little bit about them actually deciding to take on Negan, but no, I want to talk about Rick and Michonne cementing their relationship. One thing, just as you said about them deciding not to, um, deciding to attack Negan, um, there's this saying that people say to me a lot. It's like the decision you make is the right decision because you make it with the information you had at the time.

[00:59:45] And just going to let that percolate because they didn't have a lot of information. Yeah. Decision anyway. Maybe the decision should be, let's get some more information. Yeah. Let's talk about love. So, so Rick and Michonne, I mean, you are, we already talked all about the scene where, um, Carl discovers them. And, um, I liked how Rick checked in with Carl. He goes, this is, this is different. And he goes, it's cool.

[01:00:13] And I just love that he responded that way. And I wonder if why Rick said this is different. He probably meant unnecessary, right? Cause he's like, I know I was just in a little shit, but this is, this is real. And that, that's the vibe I got through the whole thing that Rick immediately knows. This is serious. He, he, uh, he, you know, holds Michonne's hand in the RV.

[01:00:38] To me, that's him just showing her, look, I make no bones about it. I'm happy about what happened last night. I want us to be a real thing. And then at the end he checks in with her. Are you up for this mission? And the great thing about it is that was already their relationship, which is why during this rewatch, we've been like, they've already acting like a couple, but it just feels so natural to continue that way and have it mean more now, you know, I think. Yeah.

[01:01:06] And then, uh, but a little bit too about Carl. I love that Rick assumed that Carl was coming with him to visit Jesus' settlement. And he said, no, I'm going to stay back here and protect Alexandria. And it just reminded me how when he was younger, he'd always be like, I'm going to go, I want to be an adult with you guys. And Rick would sort of placate him by saying, you know, someone needs to stay back here and protect this place. And now it shows he's matured because he volunteers to stay and he actually can help protect the place. Although little Carl could do some things too.

[01:01:36] But anyway, I just love how much he's grown up and he's so, he's really well adjusted right now, which I like. I felt so sad for him when he said it was because of his eye. Oh, that's yeah. He goes, oh yeah. A kid with a messed up face probably wouldn't be the best first impression anyway. And Rick's like, yeah, good point. I know he shouldn't say anything. I'm like, oh. I know he shouldn't say. Any words of encouragement here, Dad? I mean, I kind of wish he would have said, oh, that's it. You're coming with us, Carl. You can't think that about yourself.

[01:02:05] But he's just like, all right, whatever, dude. Like, we'll talk about that when I get back. It said he's like, ew. Yeah, you're right. You are disgusting. Pretty gross. Bye. Yeah. I felt bad for him there. I think he was just kind of joking anyways, hopefully. Yeah. I don't know. It made me think about that episode where he goes to the Savior Compound. Can't think of what it's called right now. I think it's called the Savior Compound. Oh. Sanctuary. Sanctuary. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:35] And like Negan. Wants to see under his patch. It's one of those awkward episodes where he kind of tries to make Carl feel seen and like make him feel better about his deformity now. Yeah. But we'll get there. Yeah. We'll get there. I remember that in the comic, that was especially hard because Carl was much younger in the comic at that point. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. Rachel, do you want to have any more?

[01:03:03] Um, I don't know that I have any more major points. There was just- It's okay. You don't. Yeah. Lucy, do you want me to just talk a little bit about them deciding to do the thing with Negan, then we can move on to notes? Yeah. If your next words are, it was fucking stupid at the end, then yeah. I mean, Jesus told them the story of Negan. He leads a group. He calls the saviors. They show up, made demands, threats, beat a 16-year-old kid to death.

[01:03:30] Rory, Gregory agreed to give them half their supplies and crops going forwards in exchange for them leaving them alone. And anybody who can stand up for that, I just don't know what to say. Um, then Rick's group, like we've already said, they're cocky. Daryl thinks they're just boogeymen pretending to be bigger than they are. Jesus is like, well, how do you know that? And Abraham's like, because we killed some of them with an RPG. I'm like, so? Yeah. That was just a couple of them, right? Not all of them.

[01:03:58] And then Daryl's like, yeah, we should do it. We'll get a cow or whatever. Then Rick says, they have food. We don't have enough of anything except us. This is what we can do. This is the trade. And Maggie says, this is going to cost us something, which is foreshadowing. I guess we already have mentioned a lot of this, but they're just so cocky. Like Maggie too. She says, we've handled people like Negan. They're dead. And I mean, that's sort of the problem is they have faced a lot of bad guys.

[01:04:28] So they think they can handle it, but they've never faced one that has this many people. Basically, that's the thing that Negan has that. I mean, one of the things that he has. I don't know. I mean, I feel like after facing the termites, they're probably like, how much worse could it possibly be than a community full of cannibals? Like there were a lot of people there. Not that they were fighters like Negan's people, but.

[01:04:55] And Jesus said that he's only seen like 20 of them at a time and doesn't know how many people they have. But I just think the scale is what they didn't anticipate. You know, there's a whole war. Yeah. But it sounds like that's almost a deliberate tactic on Negan's part is it's so diffuse and it's so they're never all in one place at the one time. They all call themselves Negan.

[01:05:21] Like it's a willful, a willful kind of subterfuge for them. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. But yeah, it's interesting and it works, I guess. Oh, the other thing I had to mention is this little detour where they come upon this car crash, this gnarly accident with Zeds. Jesus recognized them as his people. And I guess Daryl tracked them to this building nearby.

[01:05:49] And then they restrain Jesus and go inside to try to help them. I'm like, what the hell is going on here? Like, why did Jesus' people get in a car accident and then go in this building seemingly hide in little nooks and crannies inside the building? It's like a video game or it just doesn't seem very well thought out. It's just an excuse for some action where our people go in and save them. Right.

[01:06:15] It was like just purely meant to drive home that these people literally can't even handle three walkers and like have no idea what to do if they get in trouble on the road. Like they're totally incapable. Like it made me question, why are they even out on the road? Yeah. How could they possibly even go out on a run of any sort if this is their reaction? I just don't understand. Like what happened? They, how did they get in an accident? And then I just picture the ones that are left going, oh my God, let's go in this building. And they go in and they all scatter and hide.

[01:06:45] No plan, different corners of the building. Yeah. Even searching for them. It was, that was another like funny scene to me because our people aren't, there's no structure to it. And Daryl's looking through this window that you can't even see through. It looks like, like, I don't know. There were just really funny moments in that whole like search through the building. And yeah, it was very awkward. The whole scene. To me, it just felt like the, in the script, it said zombie action here.

[01:07:16] Improvised. Let's set it up. Something will happen. All right. What about notes, Rachel? I need to mention the very brief scene where Denise comes out and gives Daryl a homemade oat cake, complex carbohydrates and omega threes. And Daryl is like, we're going to make a pit stop. I'll pick up something then. And I'm like, McDonald's? Like, what do you think you're going to just pick up at a pit stop?

[01:07:45] I love that. She's so cute. She's so cute. Then she goes, like, rabies. Because she knows he means a squirrel or something. Yeah. Yeah. But just, I love their interaction in the last episode where he's just like awkwardly accepting that she wants to awkwardly get orange soda for her girlfriend. But like, they bring me so much joy every time they interact. It's just needed to be mentioned. It oscillates between brother, sister, and sort of old married couple.

[01:08:15] So, like, sexless old married couple. Like, you know, elderly. Kind of like, you know, they're not passionate about one another, but they're there for each other, you know? It felt like their relationship may have deepened here. Because he's like, you're being nice to me. Is that because I helped you? And she's like, yeah. And you remind me of someone I used to know. I just love that little bit. Like, I don't think we ever find out who that was. But he understands. We do.

[01:08:45] I'm a friend. She likes me. She's being nice to me. And then his response is, I hope it tastes better than it looks because it looks like shit. And I'm like, oh, I think they just became best friends. Yeah. She's like, just eat it. Just fucking eat it, man. Because when two people start talking to each other that way, it means they've either decided they hate each other or they really like each other. I think it's her brother, by the way. Oh, is it? Possibly her twin brother. I could be making the twin part up.

[01:09:13] But I'm almost positive it's her brother that he reminds her of. I can't believe Dwight kills her. Dude, don't even get me started on that shit. Sorry. It was an accident. He was aiming for a girl. Oh, I fucking hate Dwight so much. I can't even. Oh, God, I can't stand him. Well, you got to come back on for a Dwight episode. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Okay, what else? Any other notes? Just like every single scene between Maggie and Glenn in this episode is foreshad.

[01:09:43] Yeah, I just feel like looking at their storyline in this, like not much is said. A lot is said, but not much is said. And like, it's just all leading up to the season finale slash next season premiere. And all I can think about is like, I think watching it this time around, I can totally see that Abraham and Glenn were the choices. Like, I don't know if it's because I know. So I'm seeing it.

[01:10:11] But to me, it's like way more obvious this time. Yeah. Not that we knew that two people would be going, but yeah. So I'm just, there's so much to each scene, like Lucy was saying, with both Abraham and Glenn, but especially too with Glenn and Maggie, because we just know how limited their time is together.

[01:10:34] I also think that just focusing on them with Maggie being pregnant is functions in this episode also as sort of a model for Abraham to aspire to maybe or to get him thinking about that idea. But it's just also kind of heartwarming to see them like find a doctor and get an ultrasound. Except then when I looked at the ultrasound, I'm like, well, he grows up and he's pretty annoying sometimes. Yeah.

[01:11:03] You know, is it really worth it? Oh my God, that's awful. You're kidding. Do you watch Dead City? I don't watch Dead City because I just don't care. Oh my, of course. I'm so glad I don't watch it then because I tried. I think it comes back around, but yeah. Couldn't do it. Yeah. Um, but speaking of babies, my last note is that Rick comes out carrying Judith to hand him over to Carl and she gives Carl a little wave.

[01:11:32] And my daughter is in the phase of like waving and saying hi to everybody. Like, and it just made me smile. So shout out to Caroline. Cute. A lot of fun on the bus this morning. There was a little kid, um, sticking their tongue out at me repeatedly. I loved it. I was in an ice cream shop and, uh, I was like, you know, 17 years old or something. I saw this little kid looking at me and I stuck my tongue out and then he started crying.

[01:12:01] And his mom, when she walked by her table was like, some people. Oh, I was trying to play with a kid. Oh, you're a monster, Jason. That's what it felt like. Oh, God. That's so funny. Wow. Okay. I have one note, which is that I think Jesus stole one of Carol's cookies, right? Cause he goes, I had a cookie. My compliments to the chef. And Daryl says, she ain't here.

[01:12:30] Those are hot commodities. I guess so. Yeah. They're famous. Also, in the timeline, it's day 605, April 20th. We've already been in this day. Cause it's the day Rick and Michonne get woken up by Jesus and they go to the top. But I think it is also the day where Carol and Tobin get together. So those blanks will get filled in. Oh, that's what she is. I think. She's busy. That is. I did watch the opening sequence to the next episode.

[01:12:56] In terms of IMDb, on The Talking Dead, Chris Hardwick asked Lauren Cohen how she managed to keep a straight face when Abraham uttered the line about pouring the bisquick. Laughing, she replied she could hardly keep a straight face even at that moment and gave full props to Steven Yeun who proceeded through the scene without breaking character. She also revealed there was supposed to be a quick shot of her smiling softly while sleeping during the scene after he delivered this line, but she couldn't smile softly nor keep herself from laughing. So they abandoned the idea of it.

[01:13:22] Um, Rachel, you've got an eagle eye because the next fact is around the 9 minute 15 mark as Rick walks towards Carl, Judith waves as she recognises Chandler Riggs. Um, this is the first appearance of the Hilltop Colony, as we mentioned. Uh, in the comic series, this is the beginning of a larger world story arc, which is kind of alluded to in the script. Um, it mirrors issue 96 of The Walking Dead and it's mentioning of Negan and the Saviors.

[01:13:50] According to the comic series, uh, Dr. Harlan Carson and Emmett Carson, who we will meet at the sanctuary are brothers. And this actually, I think in the comics, they're twins, but in the show, they, they're just brothers. Um, and this is the first appearance of Gregory played by Xander Berkeley and thus ends the IMDB dive. Only on The Walking Dead would people, would a group that just crashed their car for some

[01:14:17] reason, burrow into the deep corners of a nearby building and wait to be saved by the main characters. Uh, only on The Walking Dead do you greet your manager with a stab in the gut? You want to, but only on The Walking Dead do you actually do it.

[01:15:21] Crispy chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven. People always call me loud and I'm like, yeah, I know I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Look, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold. I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me and baby, I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet. No, crispy, saucy and $4? Very. Only at 7-Eleven. Value through 62326. Participating stores only while supplies last seat for full terms.

[01:15:50] Obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens. The people it kills get up and tip. Are they slow moving, chief? Yeah, they're dead. They're all messed up. This is over. News. Last time we talked about a possible pending rights deal for Walking Dead stuff because somebody wrote in and I was like, what? But it turns out, if I understand you right, it's just about streaming rights.

[01:16:15] AMC is coming to the end of some period where now they can sell the streaming rights to other services and they want to try to sell each series individually to wherever they can get the best deal and maybe also stream some of those on their AMC service. So AMC still owns the production rights for TV versions of anything Walking Dead. So it doesn't sound like this is anything that could lead to like an HBO Walking Dead show or even an animated version.

[01:16:44] That's really what I want, especially with Invincible, the animated version being so good and so popular. But it's not likely Kirkman would helm an AMC produced animated version of The Walking Dead because Kirkman and other executive producers have had ongoing legal battles with AMC about them, allegedly like using sketchy accounting practices to underpay them. And also Kirkman has an exclusive deal with Amazon Prime Video right now.

[01:17:12] So more behind the scenes money stuff ruining everything. Too bad. I hope that does happen at some point, if at all possible. But it seems like maybe it will never happen. Maybe AMC should get their shit together and make it happen. And then the second piece, second and last piece of news, AMC announced that Walking Dead Dead City season three is premiering July 26th in just two months.

[01:17:42] It's going to have Seth Hoffman as showrunner. Um, it was Eli Jernay before this, but now Seth Hoffman, who actually wrote the next episode of The Walking Dead that we're covering in the rewatch. Uh, Entertainment Weekly reports that Maggie and Negan are now going to be allies. Jeffrey Dean Morgan said, quote, we needed this relationship to move on between Maggie and Negan. And I was desperate for it. Negan kept doing things like saving her, saving her kid. And yet she just hated me.

[01:18:11] I think we all were ready to move on. It's not just going to be, I'm going to kill you when I get the chance, you know, later Lauren Cohan, sorry, Lauren Cohan said, it's the biggest turning over of a new leaf for Maggie and Negan that's ever been because they're going to work together. It's been sort of hinted at strive for maybe attempted. And this is the first time it's legitimately happening. If I'm not going to kill him, I got to live with him and I have to see him for who he really is. And that involves a lot of healing for both their relationships and for her personally.

[01:18:38] The thing that's different this year is her vulnerability of saying, I need your help. And that's something she's never tried with him. Wait, I have to vomit. Hold on a second. Okay. Me about. She's coerced him and manipulated him into helping her. And he's done it either knowingly or unknowingly to repay a debt. But this is the first time she's led with more openness with him. She said, Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Scott Gimple and myself, we're all speaking about our hopes for season three. We knew we wanted Maggie and Negan to be together.

[01:19:06] We knew we wanted to bury the hatchet. And then Seth Hoffman came in with this storyline that gave them something bigger to work towards to bury that hatchet. And Seth Hoffman said, Maggie and Negan understandably have been like this for a very, very long time. And I think we were all excited to imagine what it could possibly look like for these two characters to genuinely be working together for a common goal. So I plotted it out.

[01:19:31] Looking at the schedule for the Walking Dead rewatch we're doing, we should see Negan and Maggie becoming all friendly just an episode or two right after he bashes Glenn's head in with his barbed wire vat. So that would be awesome. That's amazing. Also, thank you for reading that and describing exactly why I don't watch that show. I mean, let me say, as I've said many times, I'm very thankful to Ben and Alex who will

[01:19:58] be hosting our podcast for Walking Dead, Dead City. I will be watching. I've watched up to now. There's been some enjoyable bits. I'm curious to see what Seth Hoffman is going to do as showrunner. And if you're listening to me and you're a fan of that show, great. But I will be doing you a favor for not podcasting about it. We're going to take a vacation. We're going to go to New York. Yeah. We're going to go for six weeks and create our own dead city and zip line around the place. It's going to be great.

[01:20:27] We're going to film it. No. Yeah. 10 out of 10. It'll be fun. It'll just be us going. All right. Let's move on to listener moans, groans and grunts. Ian Davies says, what? That made me laugh. Carly says, Gregory's such a scumbag. He gets what he deserves.

[01:20:57] Our group has some overconfidence. It's painful to see them think they can just take out Megan. But I remember when I watched this the first time, I thought they would have, I thought they would have no problems. Also, I'm just going to soak up all the Glenn and Maggie we can get. That Abraham was going through something, which was really good. But I don't have a lot to say about it. I forgot he was still with Rosita two months after telling Sasha he wanted to be with her. Two months. Seriously. Well, apparently there's some timeline to buy to there, but I take your point.

[01:21:27] Lily Finkel says, loving the rewatch. It's been so fun hearing everyone's take on the episodes with the new perspective and all the guests who join. I listen every week, even though I have watched ahead now. Most people do that. Is this the episode? We get the Bisquick line? Yep. I'm excited for the pod to get to season eight. I just started it for a second time. Third, maybe? I can't remember. And I forgot that I actually kind of liked the later arc of the Savior War. That's really good to hear. It's a really interesting turn for the group. Very exciting action.

[01:21:56] Anyway, looking forward to y'all getting there. I don't often see the posts to comment in time, but I'm a huge fan and appreciate everything y'all do. Thank you. Bye. Thanks, Lily. Nice to hear. That is really good to hear. Yeah. I'm kind of looking forward to watching the Savior stuff again. Yeah, I'm kind of. And also, I have this pain in the pit of my stomach about it, but it's both at the same time. Both are true at the same time. Yeah, exactly. Matt King says, Abraham talking about the Bisquick and pancakes with Glenn.

[01:22:27] Barf emoji. Our first introduction to Hilltop and Gregory. Negan mentioned again, leading to Daryl suggesting they go and take out the Saviors and kill Negan in exchange for food and one of them cows. What a fateful moment. Rick seems almost arrogant that they will beat the Saviors and Negan following Daryl and Abraham's encounter with them. As decisions go, this may be arguably the worst Rick has made, apart from that beard a few series ago. No, people love it.

[01:22:56] Abraham and Glenn smiling over the baby picture at the end. Little did they know they only have six episodes left. I mean, watching this when you know the story is different than if you didn't know the story, because you might think when Rick and Daryl are both saying, yeah, we've handled people like this. We can do it again. That maybe they can. But even when I watched it the first time I'd read the comics, so I knew something bad was coming up. I never got the experience of wondering if they could actually do it.

[01:23:28] Yeah. Courtney Edgar says, hi, Jason and Lucy. My name is Courtney and this is my first time writing in. Thank you, Courtney. Thanks, Courtney. I never catch these podcasts while... Podcasts? Sorry, Courtney. I can't read today. I never catch these podcasts while they're happening and I'm so excited to have found this one. I love how it all feels like a community and something you love rather than just a production. I can't even see Rick Grimes without hearing Renee lusting after him anymore. You and me both, Courtney.

[01:23:57] I started watching The Walking Dead when it first aired with my mum, but she fell off after Glenn and Abraham's death. As many did. I know. I'm a completionist, so I've consumed everything the universe has to offer, often against my will with fear of The Walking Dead. I just discovered you all a few months ago. Oh, welcome. And I've been racing to catch up with you. I'm coming to the end of season five and I'm dreading season seven and eight again, but I'm looking forward to hearing everybody's thoughts about them. Thanks, Courtney. I'm looking forward to hearing my thoughts about season seven and eight too.

[01:24:28] Billy Thompson says, hello, hello. Hope you guys are well. Very mixed opening to this episode, but it's so exciting hearing Jesus tell our group about other groups and the expanding world of The Walking Dead. I remember first watch thinking, oh no, Jesus has set them up when they see the crashed car. That's what they thought. It was funny to see two Maggie holding a gun on Jesus, knowing that they're going to be such close partners later on in the season. Or maybe not funny, but interesting.

[01:24:57] He goes on, I was thinking the writers pulled a similar thing when the group met Aaron with Eric being hurt and didn't think they would again, but of course they did. God, I hate Gregory already. I can't wait for Maggie to hang him eventually. It does surprise me. He gets as many seasons as he does, but I guess, I think that was only one season. Well, one and a half, right? Cause it was the first episode of season eight. If I remember right that that happened. Is it? Oh, wow. Okay. I think so. Uh, but it does surprise me.

[01:25:26] But I guess it makes sense him being a sniveling, manipulative coward. It's kind of funny looking back on the episode with hindsight, how they're talking about Negan and how they just expect it to be another group. They fight and get passed with minor casualties. Even though we get some really lovely moments with our characters, this episode, like Glenn and Maggie's scan of a little Herschel and Rick and Michonne going public with their relationship. Carl giving his approval of them too. And the all around vibe being very positive about the future.

[01:25:54] I can't help, but have this underlying anxiety about the upcoming seasons. After all this Negan talk, this episode, me too, man. I'm trying to concentrate on all the cool and interesting characters that are soon to grace our screens. That's, that's a good tactic. Anyway, can't wait to hear everyone's thoughts. Thanks guys. Bye. Yeah. Ezekiel's coming up, right? Yeah. I can't wait. Rinaldi colleagues. Ty Rinaldi.

[01:26:20] He says, knots on time may have been ranked 103 out of 177 episodes in my walking dead rankings, which is a middle of the pack episode, but it was enjoyable to watch for me. It's why I love the walking dead. So many good episodes to watch. Oh, great. Another group of a-holes to kill like the wolves is the reaction from Rick's group and non-comic readers. And I'm sitting there like a naughty little kid going, nope, while laughing.

[01:26:49] Negan is in a totally different category than previous walking dead villains. This isn't going to end like those other battles in the past. He, he, he. The reason I am so childishly flippant is because Daryl is really overconfident about taking on Negan and the saviors.

[01:27:07] Even reading this storyline in the comic for the first time, I was weary of Negan because he or lieutenants under his command coerced a group of hilltoppers in charge of paying off the saviors to attack Gregory for having a light tribute. Give, gave Rick and company a tough fight. That fight scene between the coerced hilltoppers and Rick's group was wildly entertaining though, and ending the fight with Rick covered in blood on his face saying, what?

[01:27:33] After he murdered one of the hilltoppers, Ethan, to a stunned hilltop community is just priceless. Thank you, Lucy, for placing that moment in a time capsule so we can laugh at it forever. You're welcome. It's one of the reasons why I'm grateful you are a co-host on walking dead cast. Okay. Enough with my shameless fanboying over Negan. I might have caused some Zed heads to vomit in disgust. So I apologize. I will make it up to Jason by doing a quick top three about our group.

[01:28:04] Number one, Jesus doesn't need martial arts to get Carl to not hold him at gunpoint. Jesus just needs to calmly tell Carl about Roshone and Carl forgets about Jesus as a threat entirely. The group's reaction to Roshone half-dressed calling for a group meeting with Jesus. And number three, Abraham using Bisquick batter as a pregnancy metaphor to Glenn, whose reaction to Abraham's way of speaking is priceless.

[01:28:31] Abraham's humor is second to Lucy referencing Rick covered in blood saying, what? Honorable mentioned in honor of Renee, Michonne going after Crystal when she attacks Rick with an intensity only matched when she fought the governor. Which is to say, very intense. Man, I don't feel sorry for any poor fool that threatens Rick in front of Michonne. Do not mess with Michonne slash Renee's man. Don't do it. Thanks again. Don't get bit. Bye. Bye. Oh, Rinaldi. I'm funny.

[01:29:02] Amber Lovo says, hello there. Sneaking in a last minute message about The Walking Dead season six, episode 11, Knots Untie. But I missed sending in my feedback last week. So I'm going to include some from that episode. I hope this is okay. Seeing as there is some since there is some overlap in themes and new characters. I think it's super sweet that Denise was trying to find pop for Tara. I laughed at her request because in my part of Canada, we also call it pop. I think it was awesome how hard Daryl actually tried to get the special treat for Denise. What do you call it in Ohio?

[01:29:33] Oh. Yeah, what do you call it? Where I grew up in New York State, we call it soda. Mm-hmm. I think we'll call it soda here. Soda. Maybe it's pop. I think it's mostly soda, most places. I think so. Yeah, my husband definitely does not call it pop, so it must be soda. Daryl and Rick were super entertaining together. They made a good team. They'd be better if they were on the same page about new people. Mm-hmm. Jesus, what a character. Obviously, as a first-time watcher, I don't trust him one bit. I'm impressed by his escape skills.

[01:30:02] He reminds me of Jack Sparrow. The way he kept escaping but also causing issues and then being able to actually eventually talk them into helping him. What a character. R.I.P. Deanna. I understand why Carl couldn't put her down. It was sweet that Michonne was trying to help Spencer. She's such a good human. And I'm glad they were able to give her a burial. Now for the big thing that happened. So prior to the whole Jessie thing, I definitely saw some chemistry and sparks between Michonne and Rick. So it didn't shock me that they ended up together.

[01:30:30] The Jessie thing was always really weird to me. As a person, I actually didn't dislike Jessie as much as others. Yes, I know I gave off the impression that I didn't like her. But what I didn't like was the relationship with Rick. Jessie was in a terrible position with her husband. When someone is in an abusive relationship like that, it's so hard to leave. In fact, when you try to leave, that's when you're in the most danger. I know this from personal experience. What Jessie needed was some form of law and order helping her and her sons get away and holding Pete accountable.

[01:30:58] The community would have had to stand behind her and support her. That's the only way she would have been able to leave and stay away. Without some sort of safety plan, leaving Pete would most likely have resulted in more reactive abuse from him. Rick catching feelings put Jessie in a dangerous place, both while Pete was alive and then after his death. I understand that he wanted to save her, but the whole thing was a mess. I think without their little romance, Jessie would have made a solid member of the community. She was fierce and strong and a quick learner. Sam and Ron did deserve better.

[01:31:28] They were both traumatised from their dad, the fallout of that chaos, then add the apocalypse with walkers and then the wolves coming in. They were not likely to survive at all. The fact that in one episode Rick seems to have all these strong feelings for Jessie and the next he's hooking up with Michonne did make it seem sudden. But I do realise that prior to Jessie being around, Rick and Michonne were 100% building up to something. But in the end, I think Michonne is the best thing for him and I'm happy for them.

[01:31:54] They seem to be a great team and Michonne loves Carl and Judith, which is a huge bonus. So once again, our group comes to a new community. Every minute of the trip to Hilltop, I was expecting a trap. I do not trust Jesus at all and I was expecting an ambush. Terminus really left me suspicious of everyone. Just like Rick and his group. Yeah. The way Gregory talked to Maggie made my blood boil. He's way too confident for someone with little ammunition or defence capabilities. From my understanding, he only gets worse.

[01:32:23] Boo. Oh, and let's talk about how whiny he was after getting shot. Oh, boo hoo. Antibiotics are hard to digest. Still better than being dead. I wish there was good antibiotics on him. The fact that Hilltop and Jesus managed to convince Rick and the group to fight Negan and the saviours for them instantly got my anxiety spiked. I only have a vague idea of what's coming, but I'm terrified. That's the right reaction. Yeah. Someone needs to smack some sense into Abraham and tell him to get his shit together.

[01:32:52] At this point, he's just hurting everyone. I feel so bad for both Sasha and Rosita right now. I know we will see a bit more play out before his demise. The countdown is on to the scene that I'm absolutely dreading, as is most everyone else, I think. It's coming fast. As always, I hope everyone is well. Thanks for adding more community and connection to my life. I can't wait to hear what others have to say about these episodes and the next few coming up. I'm scared. Okay. Bye for now.

[01:33:20] Amber, thank you so much for writing in. Thanks, Amber. Thank you. All right. That's our show. Episode 703. Thanks, as always, for listening. Everybody. Thank you, Rachel. Pleasure to have you on. Thank you. It was so fun. Next will be The Walking Dead Season 6, Episode 12. Not tomorrow yet. I have no idea what it's about.

[01:33:44] In this episode, actually, I felt like I was watching The Walking Dead for the first time in certain parts, which is kind of a pleasure. You know, because I don't have any memory of it. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. And while you're there, please check out our other podcasts. We had a cool guest on a recent podcast about Severance. And that was Rachel. Hey! Yeah, that was really fun.

[01:34:13] Gosh, that was fun. It's been a blast to cover that show, which is just top, top notch. So if you guys haven't checked that out yet, please check it out. It's been a blast to participate, too. Yeah. Yeah. You add something to it, so it's better because you're writing in. So great. And it's me and Karen. So if you like Karen, you should listen. This episode's been made possible by Patreon supporters like Sue, who pledged her support. Patreon.com slash Jason Capacity.

[01:34:40] So thank you to Sue and everyone else who does that, because I really wouldn't still be doing this without you guys supporting via Patreon. I'm really grateful for it. But for those who are thinking about it, you get to know that you're helping keeping it going. You get ad-free episodes. And even though I've slacked off lately, you do get occasional other perks. Just a few days ago, we did a call-in show where a few of us shared some vacation photos and stories.

[01:35:07] That may sound like torture to some of you, but some of you might have enjoyed it. But me and Jamie, well, Jamie went to Japan last year, and I went just like a month ago. And she was there for a Star Wars celebration, so it was really cool to see her photos and talk about what it was like to see all these Star Wars fans from all around the world converge in Japan. Cool. Wendy was in Spain, and her pictures were just completely gorgeous. And then Penny was in Kenya, which I'm so jealous. So she was showing us her petting elephants and all kinds of stuff like that.

[01:35:36] Oh, amazing. There was a first-time person there who I just met named Leaf, and he has family in both Sri Lanka and Dubai. So he showed some pictures of that, and we talked about that a little bit. So I'll post that to my Patreon feed soon for anyone who missed it. But I'll try to come up with some more fun call-in show ideas for future months. Amazing. Awesome. And again, that's patreon.com slash Jason Capassi. All right, and that is our show. Thanks for listening.

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